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  1. #1

    Default Dark Waters and King Salmon

    Jeremy Wade decided he would try to unravel the mystery of the King Salmon decline....and make a "documentary" on it in his new show called Dark Waters.

    The remarkable thing to me was his segment on "fly fishing" for sockeyes. He showed how to snag sockeyes without really breaking the law...a heavy weight with a fly trailer dragged across the bottom. He literally showed himself snagging sockeyes.

    After eliminating bears and salmon sharks as probable cause of the King decline, he suggested Orkas might be the cause based on no scientific data at all.

    I love King Salmon fishing on the fly and found his show woefully lacking of any contributions to unraveling the mystery.
    The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Dark Waters and King Salmon

    Typical TV movies-CB

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Dark Waters and King Salmon

    Guy sounds like a total clown. Glad I’ve never seen any of his “shows.”


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    “It’s all in the reflexes.”

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Dark Waters and King Salmon

    I'm not Mr. Wade but if you want a read from someone who (for the past 15 years) has lived, fished and guided the areas most impacted by the decline I recommend this article: An Inconvenient Possibility

    The writing could stand an edit or addendum piece to update it for most recent changes but it will provide a real on the river (a lot) view.

    Ard
    Last edited by Ard; 05-10-2019 at 01:04 AM.

    Anywhere can be the land of great expectations, broken dreams, or paradise found, it's all up to you.

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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Dark Waters and King Salmon

    Well here is the other side of the coin regarding Orcas

    USNews-Orcas

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Dark Waters and King Salmon

    You folks read the New York Times and watch Jeremey Wade but I have a sneaking suspicion you may not have read my own article. What I wrote is based on real numbers and real observations made over a 15 year period of time. It is not an opinion, it is a real time observation backed up by data numbers collected by both state and federal agencies.

    Orca's - El Niño - Climate Change - Plankton - Ocean Chemistry / pH or Paranormal Activity; I stand by what I wrote!

    There is only one credible explanation for the dramatic decline from the Yukon / Kuskokwim Drainage in Western AK. all the way down into Southcentral AK. and most of Southeast. This decline Has occurred in the most heavily populated and recreationally fished watersheds in the state.

    Meanwhile during the same ten year period of decline in the geographic regions I cited above, the Nushagak River & watershed in remote Bristol Bay has remained steady with returns between 57,000 and 125,000 King Salmon over the same period of time.

    Bristol Bay! The most commercially fished place possibly on earth. Orca's - and all the other culprits we want to blame are all there also including commercial boats to the fifth power but somehow that river and many others out there continue to support healthy numbers of returning king salmon.

    I will trust my eyes and ears over both Jeremy Wade and The New York Times and their sponsors and sources!

    An Inconvenient Possibility
    Last edited by Ard; 05-10-2019 at 01:05 AM.

    Anywhere can be the land of great expectations, broken dreams, or paradise found, it's all up to you.

    Life On The Line - Alaska Fishing with Ard
    Ard's Forum blog, Alaska Outdoors

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  8. #7
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    Default Re: Dark Waters and King Salmon

    I'll keep bumping this until someone leaves a comment on the article itself.

    Like many of my writings it is long but it is as accurate as a riverman like myself can make it.

    Anywhere can be the land of great expectations, broken dreams, or paradise found, it's all up to you.

    Life On The Line - Alaska Fishing with Ard
    Ard's Forum blog, Alaska Outdoors

  9. #8
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    Default Re: Dark Waters and King Salmon

    Interesting article you wrote Ard thanks for posting it.

    Can't argue with you as I can understand your line of thinking.

    By the way the article I posted was regarding a law suit to ban salmon fishing until the Orcas can recover.

    The law suit claims that salmon numbers are so low the Orcas do not have enough to eat.
    The thinking behind the suit is if we can recover the salmon populations we can recover the Orcas.

    Regards

    Tim C.

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  11. #9
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    Default Re: Dark Waters and King Salmon

    Hi Tim,

    It's a long piece but other than saying "Went to hell" which would be just three words a complex problem can be hard to explain in shorthand.

    I've heard this (Orca) on APR broadcasts (Alaska Public Radio) meanwhile everyone here is upset because the season is closed. Last year it was allowed C&R until June 25 then closed. I had people fishing of course because every client I have ever had fishes C&R. Last year I saw zero people other than mine fishing. If they can't kill them they have no interest in being out there.

    The truly scary prospect is that to the best of my knowledge the department of fish & game has not publicly discussed any long term plan. Based on the 3 to 6 year life cycle of the various species of salmon one would think at this point a 5 year moratorium would be a reasonable thing to consider. It appears however that the problem is being addressed on a year by year basis, if it looks like a river may and I emphasis the word May make escapement, the river is them opened for harvest. In the past the rivers are open to harvest until such time by calendar date that it is clear the run will not reach sustainable escapement numbers. By those dates of course there have been unknown numbers of fish caught and killed below the counting station.

    I have always been puzzled by the of the count / harvest relationship. There have been many years where the return number has been very close to the minimum escapement goal, still fishing for harvest is allowed above / upstream of the point at which the count is conducted.

    If I were to analogize ... this would be akin to counting your cattle planning for next year and then having an organized slaughter occur after the cattle have been tallied. Consider that there would be no way for you to know how many of the stock were taken after you counted them..... How exactly could you plan for next years heard?

    That's an overly simplistic view of what has been happening but it seems like a bad plan to me if your mission is to preserve future generations of the specie.

    Anywhere can be the land of great expectations, broken dreams, or paradise found, it's all up to you.

    Life On The Line - Alaska Fishing with Ard
    Ard's Forum blog, Alaska Outdoors

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