DEEP and FAST nymph rigs?

[Fishplease]

Well sunday I took my annual trip to gunpowder falls where the water was somewhat high and incredibly fast. Fast as in, almost impossible to walk upstream in 1 foot of water. I saw a lot of deep deep pools, like 5+ feet deep where I kept seeing movement.
I tried a size 14 copper john with a small steel shot, and it only made it 2 feet under before the current carried it past the pool.
I only got 30 minutes of fishing in otherwise, cause people in canoes, kayaks, and float tubes kept coming bye every few minutes.

So my question is, whats a good nymph rig for deep and fast water?
I used a size 14 weighted hares ear on a 9 foot leader.
My set up is:
8'6 5wt redington crosswater
Cabelas prestige wf floating line
Hobbs creek large arbor

 

[hardhat]

Try a tungsten bead head or add some tungsten weight like "mojo mudd". Also, and I am sure you do this, make sure to properly mend the line. Lastly try casting up stream.

 

[hardhat]

I forgot to add try using a longer tippet.

 

[tie one on]

Have you considered using a weighted fly line ?
There are several ways this can be accomplished, if it maybe
of interest.

1. Buy a weighted line at your local fly shop. Only drawback
is that you better off having a second spool for your reel
so you can have a weighted on one floating on the other.

2. Buy a simple add-on weighted line. They come in a packet &
attach via a loop to the end of your floating line. Easy on,
easy off. The also come in various sink rates.

I also have had that problem of fast current & not enough
weight to get the fly down to the fish. I opted for the two
spools. Much easier to take both out on the water & than a
simple switch gives me more options.

Tie One On

 

[Frank Whiton]

Hi Fishplease,

That sounds like a bad situation. Sometimes it is best to just come back another day. Here is what I would do. You need some heavy weight to sink quickly and a good indicator. I would start with a couple of BB or even 3/0 split shot. Your fly should also be weighted. When using a lot of shot on a nymph setup I loop the tippet onto the end of the leader. I put the shot on the loop just above the knot. This keeps the shot from sliding down toward the fly. If you are using a leader with no knot on the tippet you can wrap the leader around the shot before you crimp it. That is: you lay the leader into the open slot and then wrap the leader around the shot once before you crimp it. The wrap-around will keep the shot from sliding down the leader. You need to cast up and across the currant using a reach cast. The further up stream you cast the quicker and deeper it will sink. If you cast too far up stream the fly and shot will be washed onto the bottom and you will get hung up. After you have figured out how far up stream to cast you adjust your position so the fly is sinking and covering the water you want to fish. You will have to mend the line as it passes your position. The reach cast will give you a good mend to start with.

The other approach is with a sink tip line but it will have to be a rocket line to get it down quickly. I have found that I prefer slower water to fish a sink tip line. One problem with a sink tip line in fast water is you have a lot of fly line in the water and it is hard to tell what your fly is doing.

 

[Fishplease]

K thanks for all the help so far.
I heard its better to go there when the it starts getting colder so people arent boating and swimming there.
I'll do some research online tonight on weights and edit my findings into here.
But Frank, I make a knot in the leader ANY time I use a shot. I can't stand when the shot slides down the line. Be it fly or spin.

 

[Frank Whiton]

Hi Fishplease,

What knot do you use in the tippet to stop the split shot?

 

[Fishplease]

Well typically I have about 2 feet of tippet where I attach my shot above the knot where I attached it to my leader.
I use a double surgeon's knot.

I will probably stock up on some 6x 9ft leaders and attach 2 feet of tippet for reaching deeper pools. Also the tippet can stop shots from sliding for me.

 

[Frank Whiton]

Hi Fishplease,

You might want to consider getting 5X leaders and then add the 2ft of 6X. This gives you the flexibility of having the 5X for fishing a little larger fly but you can still drop down to a liter tippet if the fishing conditions call for it. Since you stated you are adding the 24" of tippet for deeper water that tells me you are fishing subsurface. You don't need as light of a leader when fishing subsurface. You could probably get by with a 4X just as well as a 6X.

 

[BigCliff]

What you found is a perfect application for one of my favorite nymphing rigs: the "bounce nymph rig". I learned of this set-up from an article Larry Tullis wrote a while back, Bounce Nymphing and I've mentioned it many times on this board. (search function will get you lots of info)

It goes like this: start out with your normal leader, add 2-3' of tippet one size weaker than your leader, and tie the knot so the tag pointing away from your fly line is left 6-7" long. (this is where your fly will go, unweighted nymphs work best.) Out at the far end of that tippet you tied on, tie a stopper knot, this will be to keep your split shot in place. You'll want to use multiple small shot. (forms a skinnier weight that will snake through stuff on the bottom where big shot would hang up.)

Fishing this rig also goes a bit different than a normal nymph, shot, and indicator rig. Your indicator will be jumping around quite a bit, as your weight is connecting with the bottom. You'll have to learn what movement of the indicator means a strike, and when its just bouncing on the bottom. Your indicator will also be moving slower than the current, as the bouncing slows it down.

For a better explanation, consult the article. Its the best source of info, I just wanted to add some tips from my own experience.

 

[Joni]

I did some deep nymphing on Stillwater this weekend. I used a 20' piece of Flourocarbom 6lb. Put a chironomid on the end, but later put a split shot BB about 8" up, that seem to help a lot. I also tie a second Chironomid up about three feet from the first.
I caught two fish Sunday at the same time. First time that has happened doing this cause it is two different zones. I have had a double nymph/streamer or even two dries, but never deep nymphing. It was KEWL!
My Chironomids are all tungsten bead heads also.

 

[Frank Whiton]

Hi Joni,

That is an interesting setup. How does that 20' tippet cast?:wink: You are with out a doubt our Stillwater expert.

 

[Joni]

Frank, I could FABRICATE the story as Fishermen are know to be ABLE to do and tell you it cast easy, but alas it doesn't. It doesn't cast at all LOL. It is feed the line down between your legs to the depth you want, set the indicator, then keck away and watch. The cool thing is, when it is on, the will hit it on the way down.
I do prefer the indicator over Chans style, specially on breezy days cause the indicator is bouncing up and down and the fish hit hard!

 

[hatchhunter]

My suggestion is to learn to czech nymph. That the kind of water czech nymphing was made for. Tie some flies that are like a scud but with a whole lot of lead wire wrapped in them to use as anchor flies. Then you have 2 more realistic nymphs in your rig as well. You should be able to tick the bottom with a czech nymph which rides upside down to avoid hook ups. Look at getting some Partridge of Redditch Czech nymph hooks in size 6 and 8's for this application.
Josh

 

[crittergetter]

I recently started using Seguar flouro ( Invisx ) 4lb or 6lb on the fly line and then attach 5x, or 6x...

A guide friend told me about this line for nymphing stating it gets down really quick and is strong. I tend to agree. Stuff costs a bunch but doesn't pigtail and is really strong.. oh and will strech back if it does get pigtailllyyyyy

My two and sometimes 3 fly rigs will be... 6 to 8 of Seguar with 2 to 3 feet of airflo 6x or 5x if I feel it is cloudy..

Take a look at czech fishing. I believe this idea added a new tool for me on nymphin fish. (Fishing tips)

It is really fun and works well in high sticking fast water areas.. Try it slowly.. My first outing was 2 fish in 1 hour with 25 minutes of untangling per fish after I landed them..

 

[crittergetter]

I did some deep nymphing on Stillwater this weekend. I used a 20' piece of Flourocarbom 6lb. Put a chironomid on the end, but later put a split shot BB about 8" up, that seem to help a lot. I also tie a second Chironomid up about three feet from the first.
I caught two fish Sunday at the same time. First time that has happened doing this cause it is two different zones. I have had a double nymph/streamer or even two dries, but never deep nymphing. It was KEWL!
My Chironomids are all tungsten bead heads also.

Joni you are a god... I recently had 14' of 6lb flouro with a jig head and a live minnow on the end with a weight. And I was in a boat on a crappie lake in texas.. It killed me to try to nymph with this rig. I had to hold the minnow with one hand and the rod with the other and flip together in a smooth action. Took about 4 hours to figure out but finally started fishing without catching me,boat, rope, dog or fisher's.. Can't imagine even thinking about 20'... I will keep that in mind... thanks

 

[Bigfly]

This (drop shotting) technique is a hot topic some places, and some what frowned upon.
I don't practice it, and have had clients ask me if I did, as their lead question.
Told me later they wouldn't have hired me if I did.
To me, it's about like bobber fishing was a few years ago for trout, or for steelies now...
I just think we don't need more lead in the watershed.
Might be a good subject for a member poll.

 

[Joni]

This (drop shotting) technique is a hot topic some places, and some what frowned upon.
I don't practice it, and have had clients ask me if I did, as their lead question.
Told me later they wouldn't have hired me if I did.
To me, it's about like bobber fishing was a few years ago for trout, or for steelies now...
I just think we don't need more lead in the watershed.
Might be a good subject for a member poll.

I am still FUZZY on the drop shot stuff. Is it like those BIG lead sinkers people use for Walleye?
I have been using Tungsten and lead sub for many years, as I feel the same as you. I look at the way people FREAKED when they found out that their dinner wear from China contained lead. Allot of people got rid of their plates and cups, but in the same tolken, allot of people don't think twice about using lead to fish with. In fact some have said..."I don't use that much" but times that by all the people and that number grows every second.

I say, don't use it at all, but that is just me.

 

[Bigfly]

A "dropped shot" is any size shot, suspended below the bottom fly. It presents the fly at trout eye level. You lose the shot not the fly, when you hang up.
The question for some people it seems, is this bass fishing style, OK for trout.
I don't care if I ever fish this way. I don't care if you fish this way, but everybody please, don't use lead.

 

[HuronRiverDan]

I use longer finer leaders when nymphing in deeper water; my leader total length is in the 12 to 14 foot range. The bulk of the leader will be 3x flouro, if the water is clear I will make the final 24" 4x. Use weighted nymphs, and a couple of small shot attached above the flies.

The small leader will drop through the water much more readily then a conventional leader. You cast the rig upstream of where you expect the fish to be, toss an upstream mend and get as much of the fly line off the water as possible. Follow your line with the rod tip and watch where your line where it enters the water, or your indicator.

Dan