School me on nymphs

[pleasantvalley]

Ok, after several outings of confused and ineffective trout fishing I have decided to focus on one area for the time being. Nymphs. It’s very tempting to buck some dries when I see surface action, but I will resist that urge for the next few outings in an effort to improve my overall trout game one step at a time.

So I currently have 2 rods that I use for small streams. An LL Bean 5wt 8’6” streamlight ultra with a WF5F line, and a sage graphite 2 7’8” 2wt with WF3F line on it. Both with mono tapered leaders. I have an assortment of nymph patterns in my box, some of which I bought 2 years ago and now don’t know what they are called, others I have recently bought (rainbow warrior, midges, prince, Black stone nymphs) but all of which were recommended by local shopkeepers as effective in this area. Waters I am going to fish range from 10-15’ wife 2’ deep limestone creeks, to 30’ wide faster flowing large creeks.

Given what I already have, how would you guys recommend setting up to focus on nymphs? I’m not opposed to small purchases but am not in a position for a whole new outfit currently. So, what are your suggestions for me? How do I rig up and what style do I try first? (More interested in tight line, no indicator fishing, but willing to try an indicator.)

 

[flav]

Use the 5 wt, and save the lighter rod for dry fly situations. I'd say since you're on smaller, possibly clear water stay away from the tight line nymphing and use an indicator, it'll help you see takes you'd otherwise miss and help keep you from spooking fish because you're not fishing so close to you. For flies, just use one. Use a weighted fly by itself or with weight a foot or 18 inches above the fly, and attach your indicator 1.5-2 times the depth of the water you're fishing.

When you buy flies don't just ask what patterns to use, do a little research and find out what insects the trout will most likely be eating where and when you'll be fishing. Then use flies to match what the trout are most likely eating. For instance at this time of year the main items on the menu will probably be midges and maybe blue wing olives, there will be other insects that may be active on some streams, but that's a start. Both those bugs are small, size 18 or smaller, so you'll need flies that are small and look kind of like a mayfly nymph or a midge larvae.

Maybe that's simplifying it, but doing a little research and knowing what is hatching, when it's hatching, and what it looks like really helps. Then you can simplify your approach and you'll be more effective.

 

[Bigfly]

P valley......
Since fish feed 80+% of the time subsurface, it is the best approach......to catching fish.
Stay the course.....get a bug net and use it....take a vial, grab a bug save it.
Then take it to the store.......buy the fly that is closest. It's pretty easy really.
Don't need to know the names of the bugs or the flies.....and just go fish.
The info on not high sticking close with very clear water is good, but can be done, just fish the other side of the rock.....and move like a heron....(Study herons to learn how to wade....)
Rig the other rod for a dry fly and carry it too....if and when they look up, you are ready.
With this approach, you will have them on the ropes........or line...

Jim

 

[Hillboy]

Pleasantvalley,

You will want to use that 5 weight. I have never used a 2 wt rod, so I can't comment on its effectiveness. Eventually you may want to get a 9' rod. Watch Craigslist in your area, and you can find some terrific deals. You will need some splitshot in various sizes, tippet material in at least 4-6, and maybe down to 7. Not sure about the trout you will be chasing. Then I suggest getting a thingamabobber in the 3/4" size. It is effective with most applications. I suggest white and either orange or pink. I usually use white, unless the light on the water makes it hard to see. The most important thing about fishing with nymphs is trying to get a drag free drift. You will need to learn how to "mend" your line, which is simply lifting the line off the water and flipping it up-current or down current depending on the situation. If you are fishing in 2' of water, I suggest setting your first fly at about 2' 6" below the thingamabobber, and having the second fly about 10" above that. It is okay to put a little "twitch" on the whole assembly. That can often trigger a reaction strike. But, for the most part you want that whole assembly floating drag free down the inner and outer edge of the "seams" on the river. You can probably get info on all of this on Youtube. And don't ignore throwing some streamers out there. It's a whole nother ball game, but an effective and really enjoyable way to catch fish. And, in general, streamer fishing will produce bigger fish. Not always, but usually. Good luck.

 

[bumble54]

Bigfly's advice is gold dust as far as I'm concerned. Studying the insects you are trying to imitate and how they move and behave goes a long way to understanding how to fish them.

 

[Bigfly]

Thanks....
But I owe it all to Ralph Cutters underwater videos......
Fishing the right fly is not the whole point, but fishing it correctly is.....
You can put this off for years if you are lazy...but as soon as I started getting my fly in the right part of the water column and the way it should look, I have a hard time keeping them off my line.....
Or, you can just throw a bugger all the time............
Jim

 

[bumble54]

Thanks....
But I owe it all to Ralph Cutters underwater videos......
Fishing the right fly is not the whole point, but fishing it correctly is.....
You can put this off for years if you are lazy...but as soon as I started getting my fly in the right part of the water column and the way it should look, I have a hard time keeping them off my line.....
Or, you can just throw a bugger all the time............
Jim

Others can point which road to take but your the one driving.

 

[silver creek]

Ok, after several outings of confused and ineffective trout fishing I have decided to focus on one area for the time being. Nymphs. It’s very tempting to buck some dries when I see surface action, but I will resist that urge for the next few outings in an effort to improve my overall trout game one step at a time.

So I currently have 2 rods that I use for small streams. An LL Bean 5wt 8’6” streamlight ultra with a WF5F line, and a sage graphite 2 7’8” 2wt with WF3F line on it. Both with mono tapered leaders. I have an assortment of nymph patterns in my box, some of which I bought 2 years ago and now don’t know what they are called, others I have recently bought (rainbow warrior, midges, prince, Black stone nymphs) but all of which were recommended by local shopkeepers as effective in this area. Waters I am going to fish range from 10-15’ wife 2’ deep limestone creeks, to 30’ wide faster flowing large creeks.

Given what I already have, how would you guys recommend setting up to focus on nymphs? I’m not opposed to small purchases but am not in a position for a whole new outfit currently. So, what are your suggestions for me? How do I rig up and what style do I try first? (More interested in tight line, no indicator fishing, but willing to try an indicator.)

You asked me to post on this thread about nymphing. You have gotten some good information.

I suggest you you read this thread and read the other posts I refer you to in this thread. Take your time and try to apply some of the concepts.

https://www.theflyfishingforum.com/...55-nymphing-2-must-see-videos.html#post799336

 

[Joey Bagels]

For nymphs, you need:
1) size 10 girdle bug...any color
2) size 14 hares ear
3) size 18 pheasant tail
4) size 14 cased caddis
5) size 14 uncased caddis
6) size 18 thread midge...any color

Throw some beads on any of these if you want. But they’ll see you through most places you care to drop a line. Don’t forget dropping them behind dries too. Cover 2 bases when the hatches are coming.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[tcorfey]

I am going to try to keep this short.

Before you go back on to the stream you should consider spending some time learning to read the water and taking the Stealth Skills Challenge. First make sure you have a good pair of polarized glasses. Using stealth, slowly walk the banks and try to spot fish. Look for tails moving or shadows, or the white of a mouth opening.

Then observe the fish. Does it move side to side? or up and down? perhaps it is sitting still about 3 to 4 inches off the bottom and just opening it's mouth once in awhile. Don't forget to look in the shallow areas near the deeper areas and focus on current seams and bubble lines. Note it is easier to spot fish from a higher vantage point if you can achieve that. After observing a fish for awhile and noting where they are in the stream try to identify why the fish is there. Fish need food, oxygenated water, some cover and a place to hide if necessary. Now after studying the fish for maybe 30 minutes or more and identifying all you can about the fish and it's habits make sure you take some notes.

Now it is time to check out your stealth game, see how close you can get without spooking the fish. You can tell when they spook because they change their behavior. You don't want to chase them off their spot you just want to see their behavior change. They may sulk on the bottom or move behind a rock or another obstruction. Stop trying as soon as their behavior changes because the game is over. Now you can't fish for that fish until later because it is spooked but, you now have learned about how close you can get. That will be helpful for you later while you are fishing.

Some notes:
If it can be avoided try not to wade into a creek if it is narrow and if you do wade then do it in moving water while fishing upstream so there is a lower chance of you pushing shock waves in to the water ahead of you. If you do get in the water do what was recommended earlier try to seine or somehow identify what insect life is active. Take a notebook and record what you learned, if possible take some pictures and study them. If you see fish rising take some pictures or a video and review where the fish are in the stream. Figure out why they are where they are. This will assist you later as this studying is to learn how to "read" the water so you can identify fishy places in the future.

If you finish your observations and stealth skills challenge and you have some time left in the day go get your rod. In streams like you mention 10' to 30' wide and only 2 feet deep I prefer to use a dry dropper setup to search for fish rather than an indicator setup. This allows you to search the top of the water and the water column at the same time. So if I was just going to fish in a river or creek like you describe then I would do some on stream research or absent that info I would look at some hatch charts for the creek. I had a few minutes so I looked at a hatch chart for Gunpowder River in Maryland and this is what I found:

"Around the middle of March Little Black Caddisflies, or Grannom Caddis, start hatching along with some Blue Quill mayflies. The caddis hatch last just over a month. The Blue Quills can last almost two months. Little Brown Stoneflies will start hatching about the middle of March and last over a month."

Armed with that information I would consider using a 9 foot tapered leader in 4x to a Black Caddis pattern in size 14 for a dry and off the bend of the hook 2 feet of 5x tippet to a size 18 or 20 black midge (I use a big eye hook on my midges). You may have found something different to use after your skills challenge but I am using that fly selection as an example of what I learned by reading the hatch chart.

Using the knowledge you learned earlier in the day start searching for trout. If it has been a long enough period perhaps you can find the fish you saw earlier and this time convince him to eat your fly.

Regards,

Tim C.

 

[clsmith131]

Use the longer rod. Ideally, you would want at least a 10 footer for nymphing, it really makes line control a lot easier. Especially on the small streams, where there's no room to back-cast. If you decide to pick up a new one, the longer rods often have thicker butt sections, so you can use a lighter line weight and still have enough muscle to get it done. I use a 4wt, but will probably eventually pick up a 2 or 3wt. Usually at least a nine foot leader works best, and I like to use tippet rings to make it easier to change my tippet, and also to maintain the length of my leader. Do a search on different types of nyphing leaders. There are many types of nymphing, and you may use more than one approach on the same stream. The bugs you listed are pretty universal and are probably a good start that should produce fish. When nymphing, you really need to monitor your depth, this is key. You want your fly close to the bottom. Its a good idea to get a hook sharpener because your flies should be bouncing along the rocks. If fishing with a float, you will need to adjust according to each spot you fish. I prefer the New Zealand indicator, but you can use whatever style you like. I suggest keeping it to one fly in the beginning, until you get the feel for it, just so you spend more time fishing and less time dealing with tippet tangles. When you rig up your leader, it's a good idea to tie in some indicator mono, to give you the flexibility to switch to a tight line technique if the situation calls for it. You will need to have patience and spend time reading the water. Nymphing can be very productive, and I suspect you will catch more fish this way. If you know someone who already uses nymphing techniques on your waters, you would probably get far more from tagging along with them than you would reading about it here or in any of the hundreds of nymphing books, although both are great resources.

 

[pleasantvalley]

Thanks for the tips so far guys. Lots of great info in there.

A longer rod is probably in my future, though not immediately in the budget. I’ll try the 5wt for now, the 2wt is my favorite for small streamers really, but it’s very short so not great for nymphing from what I’m learning.

I do try to sneak up on the fish already. Whenever I look in to a new location to fish I make a trip there without any gear except polarized glasses and a camera first. I just yesterday spent about 3 hours after work scouting a new to me stream and identifying fishy areas. I have been working on translating this to identifying fishy spots without scouting with moderate success.

After work today I’m going to hit one of the local shops and get some materials to tie up a few nymph leaders. I like the idea of having a sighter section, so I’ll probably try that first. Unfortunately for me, all my fishing buddies are as amateurish at it as I am if not more so. I don’t really run in to other fly fishermen often and when I do I don’t really stop to chat, though sometimes I do if I don’t think I’m disturbing their day.

I’m gonna give it a go this weekend. I know of what I believe to be a good spot with 2 good runs at least. Higher flow, riffles, pools, changing current, and known to have stocked survivors and wild trout in it. It’s larger than beaver creek so I’ll have a bit more space to experiment.

 

[dennyk]

Get the bug net and also turn over a few rocks in the river and come as close to those bugs as you can.

What will really be useful for you is investing in the book Dynamic Nymphing by George Daniel.

Denny

 

[Bigfly]

Not to disagree exactly...
If you seine passively, and not disturb the bottom....you may learn more.
Anything free drifting is the special on the menu. Under a rock bugs aren't always a special.....just another bug.
Fish are inclined to order the special....

Jim

 

[silver creek]

Not to disagree exactly...
If you seine passively, and not disturb the bottom....you may learn more.
Anything free drifting is the special on the menu. Under a rock bugs aren't always a special.....just another bug.
Fish are inclined to order the special....

Jim

I will seine by disturbing rocks and aquatic vegetation during non-hatch periods. Some aquatic insects like scuds favor aquatic plants, others like caddis will live on the ends of silk threads or in cases on rocks, so disturb the habitat to collect everything.

But during a hatch, I will seine just the surface and subsurface to collect adults and emergers

All aquatic insects undergo "drift", even those under rocks. So all aquatic forms of insects even under rocks do become available to fish every day.

I addressed the three kinds of aquatic drift in this post when the subject was catastrophic drift after a flood.

Blown Out Tailwaters

The are 2 normal types of drift in addition to the abnormal catastrophic drift. They are nocturnal behavioral drift and constant drift. If you time the nocturnal drift, nymphing success goes up.

Why do insects drift. It would seem to be against common sense for insects to expose themselves to feeding fish when they are surviving and hiding in place. When nature does something that seems on the surface to be illogical, there must be a hidden purpose. That purpose is to repopulate the entire river. If insects did not drift, downstream aquatic insects that were wiped out by a manure spill; a chemical spill or some other catastrophe would take many many years to repopulate the entire river system.

Nocturnal behavioral drift and constant drift insure that there are ALWAYS new live aquatic insects seeding the downstream portion of the river system. How then do insects renew the upstream portions of the river? Even during a hatch all the rising nymphs and pupae are drifting downstream. If drift is always pushing insects downstream, why don't the insects eventually all end up at the ocean?

The answer is that the mating insects fly UPSTREAM to lay their eggs. This upstream flight of mating adults and egg laying females insures that the eggs are deposited upstream of where the adults emerged.

Downstream drift and upstream egg laying ensures that the insects will eventually repopulate the entire river that is able to support them

This paper explains drift:

http://www.ephemeroptera-galactica.com/pubs/pub_w/pubwaterst1972p253.pdf

Nymphs, Stoneflies, Caddisflies, and Other Important Insects: Including The ... - Ernest Schwiebert - Google Books

 

[Bigfly]

Silver, we are on the same page.....

Let's say you turn over a rock and there is a golden stone....
To me, It's not the special until it hatches in June...give or take.
So it's in the water.....fish it.....?
I try to come as close as possible to the thing that numerically is most common at the moment.
Maybe I'd run the stone as my big fly, and the "special" underneath it.
They may feel like eating a stone....but I'd bet they eat the little offering before it......
Kinda like looking at a menu at breakfast, and glancing at the dinner menu that isn't being served......
The fish have a pretty good idea what's being served...........and when.
Same with rock worms...they are on rocks...and I could fish the worm anytime...and maybe catch'em.
But I can pound them once the Caddis larvae start hatching.....
I just don't fish whatever I find, I fish the best bug for the season I'm standing in. Now.......
By the way, I do another seine that I call a scoop seine......I find the perfect rock...a flat one with water running underneath it....a friend positions himself to pick it up ...on 3...and I scoop underneath when he lifts it. Often we get a sculpin, or a baby cray...something big to go tie.....so ya, I move rocks too...

Jim

 

[fredaevans]

Ah yes ... Nymphs .... Margaret Richmond.

 

[dennyk]

Using a bug net and turning over some rocks is just fun and works for me. I do take a sample or two home to see how I can best replicate it with the materials I have at home. IMHO that's part of the enjoyment of fly fishing for me.

Learning to read the water is a essential!

Good Luck!

Denny

 

[fredaevans]

Excellent post Tim ... all of that applies to Steelhead fishing.

Fred

 

[flytie09]

You want to know about nymphs...study this guys stuff. Common Names of Trout Stream Insects. He has some amazing information and pictures of underwater critters. Great research tool.

Now.....certain species of stoneflys live in their nymph forms from 6 months to 3 years. They are clingers/crawlers so they don't swim. I'm not going to mis-speak from a scientific perspective....but they are always actively feeding even during the winter along the bottom. All species? I haven't a clue. Maybe if the river freezes and gets darn cold they might burrow and hibernate. But most cases....they don't.

They might break free and float down river a time or two during high water events or other disruptions. They are just a nice juicy meal for a trout if they come out from under their cover. When in doubt....throw on a stonefly nymph as a last or even a first resort. I do. This is why the copper john is killer. Same with the bead head prince nymphs. These 2x patterns have spawned more creative variations than any other I can think of.

Midges don't live as long......but if you fish in the winter.... you better learn how to fish midge pupa. They are present in most streams all year long. Hence, the reason I carry gobs of zebra midges. It's in my top 10 all time nymph patterns.

And standard mayfly nymphs. Many of these are burrowers. As such they disappear and hibernate or burrow in the muck where trout can't eat them. This is why their emergence and when to fish certain nymph patterns is paramount. Is this true across the board? No...every water is different. But learn the hatch schedule for any water you fish....... this will tell you what nymph to use when.

And then there are caddis. This is an insect type, unfortunately for me, that I just am not that well experienced with. Do I know what it looks like when I see them? Yeah..... but do I truly understand the nuances of all of the different species or carry enough patterns to cover their emergence stages and variations? Absolutely not. I have a few I've dabbled tying....but I'm just not educated on this insect.

This should help with that:

- Pro Tips: How to Fish Caddis-Pupa Flies - Orvis News
- Fishing the Caddis Fly for Trout | Bill Edrington | Fly Fishing

Charlie's Fly Box has every pattern you can image......doesn't hurt to study the best tiers out there...or one of them. Charlie's FlyBox - Colorado's Best FlyShop and online Fly Tying Tutorials

I hope this kick starts your nymph mojo.

Good luck,

ft09