Hatchery Steelhead....

[wt bash]

I posted this question on another forum and wanted to post it here as well, trying to get a pool of ideas and opinions on it. So here it is......

......Obviously all fish have the instinctual desire to spawn but will hatchery fish travel the same distances and cross the same obstacles compared to a wild fish? Better yet does a lake run hatchery fish have that will to jump dams and head up rapids? I've been fishing a trib thats not stocked and sees (at times) a fairly decent run of strays, then there is a small top spiller dam. Now I've heard stories and talked to people who've caught a few here and there (above the dam) but with no regularity. Its often overlooked around here but it rarely freezes up. I know there are fish below the dam as I've caught a few there and have been searching the waters above the dam with no avail, yet. So I guess what I'm asking is do I have a shot or am I just practicing casting?

 

[ant]

I'm no expert, or fish-spert in this case, but I would think that the spawning run is on an instinctual level and has nothing to do where the fish was born. I can't see a hatchery fish swimming to the dam, looking at it and saying "Eh, this is far enough..." and plopping out it's eggs right there.

I think that fish will try to breach that dam, but that it's success is controlled by the conditions, such as water flow and the height of the dam.

 

[Ard]

The only real experience with this was acquired at the Salmon River Hatchery in NY. long ago Bill. The fish only have to travel 12 miles to reach the place but they must run some rapids and endure thousands of fishermen using every means at hand to catch them including snagging them. I have seen some pretty beat up fish who were more than a little determined to make it all the way. By all the way I mean...............Once they reach the area of the hatchery they have to recognize the natal waters from a small stream that flows past and is utilized by the hatchery. So, they must leave the main river channel and travel up the nursery stream. But it isn't over yet, there is a side flow that feeds into the stream from the hatchery and that flow enters on the left side of the stream and is comprised of a long series of large concrete steps. Each of the steps creates a small waterfall that the fish must jump and there are a bunch of them. After all of this is accomplished the fish enter a holding area where they are subsequently netted and taken for the extraction of milt & eggs.

So the State there has constructed a bit of a man made process of Natural Selection because only the fish that jump through all the right hoops get to reproduce albeit a sort of insured mass fertilization but hey, they get er done.

Much ado is made over the fitness of hatchery fish vs wild fish. Here in Alaska many of our fisheries are augmented by hatchery reared fingerling's and frankly I see it as the harbinger of the future of all fisheries in times to come. The people who rail against hatchery fish need to examine such things a golf as a less contentious hobby as there are only arguments over way grasses may produce the best putting greens in that. I jest, but really if you run into people who are adverse to hatchery fish they are not being realistic.

My opinion and not always popular with all audiences,

Ard

 

[Thread Starter]

WT
Ive seen it with our land locked salmon here in Colorado,
I've witnessed their foray over the "weir" of a metering diversion.
I would answer yes to this and agree with Ard and Ant.
You cant stop a fish hell bent on banging it out on the rocks..lol

 

[wt bash]

I should add a few more details, the fish would travel through an industrial waste land then 20 river miles to the first dam in question. From there its another 24.5 river miles to the area I've been searching around with two fairly heavy rapids in their way. Much of the river bottom is sandy/muddy with a few boulders and shale ledges thrown in. As the river finds its way to my area it takes on more of a freestone style character, less sand to no sand, broken shale, more ledges and scattered gravel. I have been concentrating on the deeper pools and runs with gravel close by, hoping that at this point in their journey they will begin to stage near good gravel. The final dam is maybe another river mile or so that cuts through a shale gorge with no gravel at all, this dam is impassable.
I'll keep at, I mean its the only way to know for sure and its that much more rewarding. I'm sure they come up there but like some of the replies have said its a matter of conditions. We're in the middle of a decent warm up that has melted all our snow and now its raining so a good flush of a water should get them moving around a bit. If the average steelhead is the fish of a thousand casts then these guys are the fish of 10,000 casts! But thats the fun part!

 

[HuronRiverDan]

WT, keep at it, I've seen Steelies jump a fairly formidable dam on my home stream...

Dan

 

[fredaevans]

"Darwin was right." At sooo many levels.

Personal opinion here only, but I think 'hatchery vs native' has far more to do with 'where did the hatchery fish come from?'

If 'natal' to the stream ... good to go. If not? Probably not.

Good examples of this are SW Oregon (directly into the Pacific) rivers. Most are 'netted' by the Game Department, the fish taken to a hatchery (Elk or Sixes River facility?) and 'milked' when ready. The fish from one river vs another are kept separate so what comes in is exactly what goes out: Natal to the River.

Native gets 'frisky' with a Hatchery fish? Who gives a shxt? They're both the same strain/location/river/DNA.

Expensive way of doing business, but the RIGHT WAY of doing business.

Just my .02 cents.

fae

 

[Ard]

Now I understand what you are doing. You're looking for them where no one else is at !! my advice is to do more watching than fishing. If there are any there you'll get a clue to their presence if you stare at the pools and runs long enough.

 

[tyler185]

I think its not as much about will power as it is fitness. I think hatchery and wild fish each have the need to spawn. However, I believe hatchery fish tend to be in far less better condition than wild fish because of the environment they are raised in. This means that a HEALTHY wild fish will be able to fight the "obstacles" and get farther up stream. If we were just talking about stocked fish surviving in a river then I believe that hatchery fish would be able to out compete wild fish.

 

[HuronRiverDan]

I think its not as much about will power as it is fitness. I think hatchery and wild fish each have the need to spawn. However, I believe hatchery fish tend to be in far less better condition than wild fish because of the environment they are raised in. This means that a HEALTHY wild fish will be able to fight the "obstacles" and get farther up stream. If we were just talking about stocked fish surviving in a river then I believe that hatchery fish would be able to out compete wild fish.

I see this opinion about "hatchery" steelhead all the time and I think there are some misconceptions out there.

Hatchery steelhead in the Great Lakes region are raised from the eggs obtained during spawning season from mature steelhead trapped in weirs, where the eggs and milt are stripped from the males and females.

The eggs are fertilized, then raised after hatching. The young steelhead are kept in rearing runways until they are approximately 1 year old; which is about the age wild and hatchery fish change to the smolt stage.

Smolts begin their journey downstream to the lakes or Ocean to begin the next phase of their lives. Thesse young fish go on a feeding spree and begin growing at a very quick rate depending on the food available to them, here in the Great Lakes they feed on smelt, emerald shiners, perch, young walleye, and just about anything else they can swallow.

After spending approximately two years in the big water; lake or ocean, these fish begin to mass off their home streams. These home streams are the streams these fish were stocked in as "Smolts".

Hatchery Steelhead are nothing like the "stockers" that come directly from a state fish hatchery; they have never been in the wild until the day the hatchery truck stocks them.

Dan

 

[wt bash]

Ha! It figures! With the warm up and little rain we had the trib in question has turned into the Norway Maelstrom! The others are clear of ice for the most part and dropping. The unicorn hunt will continue...

 

[Cool Hand Hodge]

I see this opinion about "hatchery" steelhead all the time and I think there are some misconceptions out there.

Hatchery steelhead in the Great Lakes region are raised from the eggs obtained during spawning season from mature steelhead trapped in weirs, where the eggs and milt are stripped from the males and females.

The eggs are fertilized, then raised after hatching. The young steelhead are kept in rearing runways until they are approximately 1 year old; which is about the age wild and hatchery fish change to the smolt stage.

Smolts begin their journey downstream to the lakes or Ocean to begin the next phase of their lives. Thesse young fish go on a feeding spree and begin growing at a very quick rate depending on the food available to them, here in the Great Lakes they feed on smelt, emerald shiners, perch, young walleye, and just about anything else they can swallow.

After spending approximately two years in the big water; lake or ocean, these fish begin to mass off their home streams. These home streams are the streams these fish were stocked in as "Smolts".

Hatchery Steelhead are nothing like the "stockers" that come directly from a state fish hatchery; they have never been in the wild until the day the hatchery truck stocks them.

Dan

Dan is absolutely right on here...devils in the details!

 

[oarfish]

At our local hatchery we only use wild steelhead for breeding, and the smolts are returned to the local creeks and rivers from where the breeding stock was taken. Sorry to say that not all of our once run streams have gotten a return of anything and now there gone for good. We did try a replant from another stream and none never returned.