Best head cement?
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mtboiler
Well-known member
I have a bottle of hard as hull on my desk that is about dried out. I haven't used head cement in a couple years. I am not sure if I am just to lazy or my flies hold up well enough I don't think I need it. I think it adds to much weight to a dry and since most of my nymphs are bead head, I think the bead protects the whip finish enough.
Anyway, Hard as Hull is pretty good stuff. I do also have a bottle of nail polish for salt water flies.
Anyway, Hard as Hull is pretty good stuff. I do also have a bottle of nail polish for salt water flies.
Rip Tide
Well-known member
Nail lacquer from the dollar store. Whatever brand they have.
You don't need "the best". Some people use nothing at all.
On my saltwater flies..Krazy Glue. But they take a lot more abuse
You don't need "the best". Some people use nothing at all.
On my saltwater flies..Krazy Glue. But they take a lot more abuse
dennyk
Well-known member
I use Zap-A-Gap liquid for head cement. Zap-A-Gap gel for eyes.
pnc
Well-known member
Various things can be used.
Never used for trout flies & little for fresh water.
Saltwater..... use it. Have Backcountry, Hard as hull..... Loon, hard head...... Orvis, deep penetrating...... and one bottle that just says head cement, no name.
I prefer one that is thin and will soak into threads. Makes for a more permanent head. Second coat for glassy look.
My Orvis cement is getting thick (old). Plan on trying to thin as I have with only Loon so far. Loon as are other brands are water based cements. And will thin with water. Couple of drops in a half filled bottle will make like new.
For a small window of time I once used CA type cement. Might have been krazy glue. Never again after that summer. Every fly tied with such was coming apart. Later was told this type of cement will start to break down in water. Looking at flies showed this. Ones used more often were in far worse shape. Threads were loosening. Thankfully it was only a dozen flies I had used this on. Girlfriends nail polish was quick fix at time.
......... pc
Never used for trout flies & little for fresh water.
Saltwater..... use it. Have Backcountry, Hard as hull..... Loon, hard head...... Orvis, deep penetrating...... and one bottle that just says head cement, no name.
I prefer one that is thin and will soak into threads. Makes for a more permanent head. Second coat for glassy look.
My Orvis cement is getting thick (old). Plan on trying to thin as I have with only Loon so far. Loon as are other brands are water based cements. And will thin with water. Couple of drops in a half filled bottle will make like new.
For a small window of time I once used CA type cement. Might have been krazy glue. Never again after that summer. Every fly tied with such was coming apart. Later was told this type of cement will start to break down in water. Looking at flies showed this. Ones used more often were in far worse shape. Threads were loosening. Thankfully it was only a dozen flies I had used this on. Girlfriends nail polish was quick fix at time.
......... pc
kentuckysteve
Well-known member
I hardly ever use any but i think the cheap nail lacquer is fine.I use it on my larger bass flies.Sometimes i may put a little krazy glue on the thread before the last couple wraps then just a simple whip finish.I still have a bottle of Griff's on my desk.
bigjim5589
Well-known member
I've tried many, but the Sally Hansen Hard as Nails has been as good as any. So, that's what I use.
Also use epoxy on larger, salt or bass flies, because it's a lot more durable.
Also use epoxy on larger, salt or bass flies, because it's a lot more durable.
flyminded
Well-known member
Sally Hansen Hard as Nails when I do. But I tend to avoid anything due to my inbuilt desire to keep scents off my flies. Which is likely unfounded given the scents that come off my fingers when I am tying. But we all develop our own superstitions.
fredaevans
Well-known member
+1 here when I tied my flies.
Dozen's of colour choices! Just start with a light colour thread (I used a tan) so thread will absorb the nail polish. First two coats were really slimmed down so they would soak in, last was a full on.
Nice bright shiny head.
pnc
Well-known member
Should have noted earlier...... not every fly I tie for saltwater is glued. But most are. I know a few people thaf never glue. All of them whiip finish , several times. If one loosens fly is still tied.
Have Sally, hard as nails. And other nail polishes. Mostly for color on poppers. Have in past used clear polish instead of cement. Shortly after not for same.
This is in essence using paint instead of cement. While this may have desired results. It will not have life of cement. A cement made to be in water. Over time I've tried about everything I could think of. Head cement works better.
...... pc
Have Sally, hard as nails. And other nail polishes. Mostly for color on poppers. Have in past used clear polish instead of cement. Shortly after not for same.
This is in essence using paint instead of cement. While this may have desired results. It will not have life of cement. A cement made to be in water. Over time I've tried about everything I could think of. Head cement works better.
...... pc
nevadanstig
Well-known member
Dollar store gel superglue.
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lightbender
New member
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I've been fishing for 68 years, so I'm not new, but fly fishing only for twenty years or so. I recently got the bug to try fly tying and I'm in hook, line and sinker (sorry). But, I'm a little confused about some of the head cement recommendations, specifically the cyanoacrylates (super glue).
I cut and repair precious tones for a living, been at it 44 years. Since the 1970's I've incorporated the use of cyanoacrylate of various types in my work, and I can say without equivocation that cured cyano and water do not play well together. Continued contact with water WILL destroy a super glue join and will eventually turn it to mush. Additionally, the use of a "kicker" or accelerant creates a strong exothermic reaction that will actually burn cotton, nylon, etc. I don't understand why it is recommended for fly tying.
Also, once cured, it is hard and it embrittles the surrounding material, something I wouldn't think would be appropriate with deer hair heads, for instance.
I've been using a variety of UV resins for tying, and they seem to work fine, BUT too poerful a curing light or too long an exposure creates a lot of heat, again, so some experimentation is necessary. My curing light has 100 UV LED's and is super powerful, so I hold it about a foot away for two seconds and get a good cure.
I have no financial interest in any of these products.
I'm thinking most flies have a short life anyway, if used, so maybe the super glue lasts long enough? Hoping to learn more here about this...
I cut and repair precious tones for a living, been at it 44 years. Since the 1970's I've incorporated the use of cyanoacrylate of various types in my work, and I can say without equivocation that cured cyano and water do not play well together. Continued contact with water WILL destroy a super glue join and will eventually turn it to mush. Additionally, the use of a "kicker" or accelerant creates a strong exothermic reaction that will actually burn cotton, nylon, etc. I don't understand why it is recommended for fly tying.
Also, once cured, it is hard and it embrittles the surrounding material, something I wouldn't think would be appropriate with deer hair heads, for instance.
I've been using a variety of UV resins for tying, and they seem to work fine, BUT too poerful a curing light or too long an exposure creates a lot of heat, again, so some experimentation is necessary. My curing light has 100 UV LED's and is super powerful, so I hold it about a foot away for two seconds and get a good cure.
I have no financial interest in any of these products.
I'm thinking most flies have a short life anyway, if used, so maybe the super glue lasts long enough? Hoping to learn more here about this...
pnc
Well-known member
Don't be confused. Your absolutely right. Super Glues are not for water. There are those that use it. My guess is flies don't see much use or water.
From experimenting less than a week of water time will ruin fly. Flies coated with head cement after using super glue will last longer. But pop like a clove of roasted garlic when squeezed. Like said mush.
Can't beat a cement that soaks into threads.
......... pc
From experimenting less than a week of water time will ruin fly. Flies coated with head cement after using super glue will last longer. But pop like a clove of roasted garlic when squeezed. Like said mush.
Can't beat a cement that soaks into threads.
......... pc
silver creek
Well-known member
Your question has been answered in this post: Head cements and nail polish are both laquers
Hard as Hull Head Cement is nail polish. It is manufactured by Lacquerite, Inc. for Prestige Cosmetics. Lacquerite is a major manufacturer of nail polish.
Prestige Cosmetics owns BackCountry Laboratories which markets Hard as Hull Head Cement.
“On Monday, August 30, 1999, a U.S. federal trademark registration was filed for BACKCOUNTRY LABORATORIES by PRESTIGE COSMETICS, Deerfield Beach 33442. The USPTO has given the BACKCOUNTRY LABORATORIES trademark serial number of 75787956.”
BACKCOUNTRY LABORATORIES Trademark of PRESTIGE COSMETICS. Serial Number: 75787956 :: Trademarkia Trademarks
Read my post here:
Hard as Hull is nail polish
For head cement thinner use a nail polish thinner. Read my post here: http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/f...os/371599-head-cement-thinner.html#post846373
Last edited:
pnc
Well-known member
Not all head cements are laquer. Loon, for instance is one. Water based thins with water. Orvis has hydrocarbons in cement. Hard as hull is only bottle I have that says anything about heat or flame.
...... pc
...... pc
karstopo
Well-known member
Maybe it depends on the pattern as to what is the best head cement. In other words, is there one good type across the board for all patterns fresh or salt?
I like UV cures for what I tie. But I've gotten away from using much adhesives in my ties including around the finishing wraps the head. Flies get torn up and that's a good thing.
I like UV cures for what I tie. But I've gotten away from using much adhesives in my ties including around the finishing wraps the head. Flies get torn up and that's a good thing.
coug
Well-known member
I usually do not use anything on trout flies. Steelhead flies get one coat of cellire (until I run out), then two coats of Sally's. I need to reread Silver's threads above.
silver creek
Well-known member
True. However, I believe the water based head cements are essentially water based nail polish. So buy a water based clear nail polish instead of Loon's product.
https://waterbasednailpolish.wordpress.com/2012/09/02/water-based-vs-regular-nail-polish/
http://www.innovateus.net/innopedia/what-acrylic-nail-polish
pnc
Well-known member
Had stores to go to today. Stopped to get red & white nail polish I use on poppers & such. Grabbed two bottles..... handed to clerk.... she said $30.-something........ I said , what ? Cheapest they had was $8 - 9. Including clear. For 1/2 oz bottle. I'll try dollar store next.
BC Hard as Hull is 1/2 oz bottle (same size & shape including cap as Sally Hanson Hard as Nails right next to it in my rack) other brands I know of larger. Head cement might be cheaper than polish.
........ pc
BC Hard as Hull is 1/2 oz bottle (same size & shape including cap as Sally Hanson Hard as Nails right next to it in my rack) other brands I know of larger. Head cement might be cheaper than polish.
........ pc