casting sinking lines

[shmish]

hi,
I think I'm okay at casting my wf dry line on my 6wt rod. I don't know if my technique is totally correct, but I can get some decent aim and distance. It could be better I suppose. But when it comes to casting my sinking line things don't work so well. I'm not sure I even need to cast it very well when lake fishing, so I guess that would be my first question! Generally speaking the line feels very heavy and quite often it can get tangled if I do more than 1 false cast. The 2nd problem is that my stripped line sinks relatively fast at my feet (or waist) so that I can't really shoot the line. Maybe I just don't have enough line speed to pull it from the water, or maybe I need to do more false casts.

Are these common problems, and are there any general tips or suggestions?

thanks

 

[Jakeway]

Get a stripping basket or net to hold your loose line. Then just peactice making casts with the sinking line. Think Smoother, not Stronger. Timing is everything.

 

[Frank Whiton]

Hi shmish,

The sinking line can be a problem and takes some getting use to. Don't expect to cast it as well as a floating line. It is important that you get the line up to the surface before you start your back cast. It is important that the rod tip is close to the water before starting the rod tip moving on the back cast. One way to get everything moving is to coil line in your line hand as you strip it in so it doesn't sink into the water. When the fly is near the surface you can make a roll cast pickup. You do it like a roll cast but you aim the forward cast above the water and as it straightens out you start you back cast. You can feed line from your line hand and shoot what is left. This is not a long range cast. When holding the large coils in your line hand I lightly put my thumb over the coils so when you shoot the line it won't pile up at your first guide. It just takes practice. The above thoughts are using a sink tip line but will work with a full sinking line. Joni does a lot of this kind of fishing and may have some ideas for you.

It sounds to me that you would be better off with a sink tip line for this fishing. With a sink tip the line you strip onto the water is a floating line and you won't have the problem of it sinking. If you are fishing deep enough that a full sinking line is needed a striping basket is a good solution as Jakeway suggested. A stripping basket does not work well for deep wading.

 

[Joni]

Thanks Frank. I do hear this all the time about sinking line being harder to cast. I don't know how much help I will be cause I don't see it. I even use GLASS rods and have a TYPE VII. I actually think they cast easy. You HAVE TO SLOW DOWN and as Frank said get it to the surface. You can have a lot more floating line on the water to recast, but I have had fish hit my sinking line 5' to 10' in front of me, so it is good to strip it ALL the way in.
I on the other hand, I have a STREAMER line which is the 15' of sink on a dry. That thing is tuff to cast. All that weight in 15 feet. feels like trying to cast 50 split shot (BB size) all in one spot of a fly line.
In answer to you other question, NO, I don't think presentation with a sinking line is that big of issue. If you are in a tube and you can fling it out there, try kicking backwards and pull some more line out. When you get as much line out as you want, then start stripping it in.
It will curl just like dry line, but one fish on with 60 to 70' of line out, it straightens out real quick ;-)

 

[shmish]

thanks for the info.
It sounds like I probably just need to get better at casting in general. If I have nice loops in the air the sinking line casts okay. Definitely the timing is different because the line is a lot heavier, and I haven't had much luck shooting line because of the sinking thing I mentioned. The stripping basket sounds interesting.

For interest, I would say that casting a sinking line is easier than casting my floating line with sink tips, especially when I have a decent sized streamer on the end of the sink tip. That puts a lot of weight at the end and gets kind of crazy.

 

[Frank Whiton]

Hi shmish,

Just to clarify, the sink tip line I am talking about is the ones built to be a sink tip line by the manufacture. You can not add or remove the sink tip. I am not talking about adding a sinking tip to a floating line.

Here is SA's description:

Wet Tip II - WF6F/S
This is the best all around sinking tip fly line made, and absolutely indispensible for trout fishing! The Wet Tip has a uniquely tapered front section and a graduated density transition from the floating section to the sinking tip that has little "hinge" and turns over easily. Each line weight has progressively longer sinking tip lengths appropriately designed for that individual line weight to insure direct contact, improve sensitivity, and turn flies over easily. 3 weight lines have a 6.5 foot tip, a 6 weight line has a 10 foot sinking tip section, and a 9 weight has a sink tip nearly 15 feet long. Color: Mist Green/Green Tip.

 

[Joni]

Frank....WOW! very interesting. You being a Guide in Alaska will know more about sink tips then just about anyone else I know.
I know there is advantage to sink tips, such as having the line float for mending and drift.
I just haven't fished water that I couldn't use a full sink, but I know they are there.
I do know from talking to DEC that if the water is fast and shallow to not be afraid to use a short leader. That the Salmon or Steelhead really aren't that leader shy.

 

[randyflycaster]

I find sinking-tiip lines easier to cast than floating lines. Sinking tips cut through the wind.

Your sinking line might be tangling so much because it's a mono-core line. I buy only low-memory lines. Before I fish, however, I pull most of the line off the reel then gently pull out the coils. After I finish fishing I cut off my fly, make the longest cast I can, then reel the line in. This takes out some of the line twist.

As for stripping baskets, I've tried many. My favorite by far is the Orvis. It has nine cones which helps reduce tangling. True it costs about $60.00, but in my opinion it's worth it.

Randy Kadish

 

[shmish]

Hi shmish,

Just to clarify, the sink tip line I am talking about is the ones built to be a sink tip line by the manufacture. You can not add or remove the sink tip. I am not talking about adding a sinking tip to a floating line.

Here is SA's description:

Wet Tip II - WF6F/S
This is the best all around sinking tip fly line made, and absolutely indispensible for trout fishing! The Wet Tip has a uniquely tapered front section and a graduated density transition from the floating section to the sinking tip that has little "hinge" and turns over easily. Each line weight has progressively longer sinking tip lengths appropriately designed for that individual line weight to insure direct contact, improve sensitivity, and turn flies over easily. 3 weight lines have a 6.5 foot tip, a 6 weight line has a 10 foot sinking tip section, and a 9 weight has a sink tip nearly 15 feet long. Color: Mist Green/Green Tip.

Are sink tip lines usually used on streams/rivers for nymphing or using streamers? Typically at what point do people stop using weights on the leader/tippet and move to a sink type line?

I recently learned what a "nymph" line is, maybe someone could correct me if I'm wrong. A nymph line is a floating line that is bigger (diameter? stiffness? weight?) at the tip, which makes the line nicer for turning over heavier nymph and streamer flies when compared to the standard WF line.

cheers
Doug

 

[sandfly]

i use weight along with a sinking or sinktip to drive the fly down on big water... I agree on the orvis basket, ive tried em all and even made a few...cant be beat

 

[BigCliff]

smish, sinking and sink tip lines are used generally for streamers in moving water and for streamers and nymphs in still water.

You're generally right about Nymph lines out there. They're set up similarly to bassbug lines on the front end, but tend to have a long belly to help with mending. For the latter reason, they alos often take up more space on a reel than the avg WFF line.

 

[cadhopper]

For fishing streamers 4-6 feet deep for bass would you guys use a sinking line or sinking tip line? When I purchased my 8 wt rod from Orvis last weekend I had WF8F put on the reel and and intermediate sinking line put on a spare spool so I could hopefully learn to fish flies a little deeper when the bass get shy. I choose what the Orvis chart showed so I hope I didn't make a $60 dollar mistake. Thanks and this forum is awesome.

Chuck

 

[Joni]

For fishing streamers 4-6 feet deep for bass would you guys use a sinking line or sinking tip line? When I purchased my 8 wt rod from Orvis last weekend I had WF8F put on the reel and and intermediate sinking line put on a spare spool so I could hopefully learn to fish flies a little deeper when the bass get shy. I choose what the Orvis chart showed so I hope I didn't make a $60 dollar mistake. Thanks and this forum is awesome.

Chuck

First of let me say I don't fish for bass in rivers, I am sure there some rivers around for them but none I have fished. I do however fish for them on Stillwater.
Personally, I prefer full sink as to sink tip, BECAUSE I fish both (rivers and stillwater)
I go to Jordanell here with intermediate line and a woolly or similar and cast into the weed beds or the trees and have great luck. Sometimes with Intermediate you have to count down to find the ZONE, but all sinking line will eventually get there.
Did you get the Clear Intermediate, The Buckskin or the Steelhead Light Blue?
I have had all three at one time or another. I had some of the early CLEAR and it looked like someone took a razorblade to it about 30 feet in. About ever 5' there was another slash. I JUST sent it back because I feel it should have held up better and I just wanted them to SEE what it was doing. Friday I received a brand new line, How cool is that. And it is the new Gen. 3 so we will see how it holds up.

Some of these guys here are HARD CORE BASS MEN so I want to see what they say.

 

[cadhopper]

Thanks for the info. I did get the Gen 3 clear intermediate line so hopefully I won't have any problems. I've had good luck using Zoom plastic baits on a bait caster around the downed trees and weed bed edges on this pond but not on top water flies and poppers for bass so I think I need to get the flies deeper. I'm hoping streamers and crawfish flies will work with sinking line to keep the flies close to the trees and weed line edges and in front of their noses to entice a strike.

I've also had a lot of luck tossing plastic frogs in the open holes amongst the broad leaf pond weed beds on the bait caster but I have to use a heavy shock leader because of the pickerel. I bought the steel 6" leaders for the 8 wt fly rod and floating line so hopefully that will keep me from losing the new frog flies I just bought. Those buggers have some really nasty teeth and are slippery as eels but they strike like a missile and are a nice fight.

The nice thing about this pond is if all else fails I can pull out the 4 wt fly rod and have a ton of fun with the large bluegill. If they grew to the size of bass I would hate to think of how hard they would fight.

I can't wait for the water to start warming up so I can pull the cover off the kayak and get back on the water. Cabin fever has taken over.

 

[Joni]

Well, at least you know if you DO have any problem with the line Orvis is good for it.
You going to try for those toothy guys on a fly and if so are you going to use a heavy mono or steel braided tippet?

 

[Frank Whiton]

Are sink tip lines usually used on streams/rivers for nymphing or using streamers? Typically at what point do people stop using weights on the leader/tippet and move to a sink type line?

I recently learned what a "nymph" line is, maybe someone could correct me if I'm wrong. A nymph line is a floating line that is bigger (diameter? stiffness? weight?) at the tip, which makes the line nicer for turning over heavier nymph and streamer flies when compared to the standard WF line.

cheers
Doug

Hi Doug,

Your target fish and what you are fishing with has a lot to do with your selection of weights or sink tip line. Most nymph fishers use a floating line with weighted nymphs and split shot according to how fast a river is. If you are fishing streamers and other wet flies in a river, I would prefer a sink tip line. I like the sink tip because you have less line under water and it is easier to pick up for a cast. You can also mend line with a sink tip but you can't with a full sinking line very well. With a sink tip and a weighted fly you can cover most river conditions. I think for lake fishing a full sinking line would be a good choice.

You are right about the nymph line. If you study the two diagrams below you can see the difference in a general purpose fly line and a nymph line. The Rio Gold is a new design for RIO and uses a longer rear taper. So the difference is not as dramatic as it would be with some other floating trout lines. The RIO Nymph line will be great at mending line and roll casting due to its long body and short head.

RIO Gold General Purpose

RIO Nymph line

 

[Jakeway]

For fishing streamers 4-6 feet deep for bass would you guys use a sinking line or sinking tip line? ...Chuck

Well Chuck, for me the answer is no. I fish a lot of bass in lakes, and I use a floating line, 9 foot leader, and slightly weighted streamers (cone-head wooly buggers or clouser minnows) for bass in 4 to 6 feet of water. After the cast I let the streamer slowly sink, then strip it a couple times. On the strip the fly rises slightly; when I pause, it sinks again. The bass usually hit when it's sinking.

For a dynamite approach, I use a fast sinking (Type 6) sink tip line with a four foot leader, and a bouyant (floating) bug, such as a Dahlberg Diver or Sneaky Pete. After I let the tip sink, I strip it a couuple times. Now the heavy line makes the fly dart to the bottom when I strip it. On the pause, it slowly rises, much like a dying fish will rise towards the surface. If a bass doesn't smash it on the rise, it will suspend about 3 feet off the bottom. Let it sit a bit at that depth till the bass can't stand it any more!

 

[cadhopper]

Well, at least you know if you DO have any problem with the line Orvis is good for it.
You going to try for those toothy guys on a fly and if so are you going to use a heavy mono or steel braided tippet?

I bought 6" steel leaders from the Orvis store for the fly rod. On the bait caster I use a 8" fluorocarbon 30lb leader and it holds up good.

 

[cadhopper]

Well Chuck, for me the answer is no. I fish a lot of bass in lakes, and I use a floating line, 9 foot leader, and slightly weighted streamers (cone-head wooly buggers or clouser minnows) for bass in 4 to 6 feet of water. After the cast I let the streamer slowly sink, then strip it a couple times. On the strip the fly rises slightly; when I pause, it sinks again. The bass usually hit when it's sinking.

For a dynamite approach, I use a fast sinking (Type 6) sink tip line with a four foot leader, and a bouyant (floating) bug, such as a Dahlberg Diver or Sneaky Pete. After I let the tip sink, I strip it a couuple times. Now the heavy line makes the fly dart to the bottom when I strip it. On the pause, it slowly rises, much like a dying fish will rise towards the surface. If a bass doesn't smash it on the rise, it will suspend about 3 feet off the bottom. Let it sit a bit at that depth till the bass can't stand it any more!

Thanks for the info, I have both the flies your talking about using with the sinking line so I will start practicing with them on the sinking line.