"Bounce" in my fly rod

[wfosborn]

I'm fishing a Lamiglas #8 rod and having an odd problem with it feeling like it's bouncing. This happens when I lift the line from the water, on my stop on the backcast, and when I stop on the forward cast if I don't shoot a lot of line. If I go really slow on my backcast I can keep it from happening, but I have trouble keeping my line off the ground then and can't keep very much line airborne.

I've learned to deal with the bounce by using a long drift after my backcast, but I have some pretty ugly S curves in my fly line until it starts to straigten out. Anyone have any tips on dealing with this?

 

[Frank Whiton]

Hi wfosborn,

If I remember right you are the worlds worse fly fisherman.:smile: Make sure when you do your pickup the rod tip is close to the water and that the fly is moving before you start the pickup. The S curves can be caused by over powering the cast. It sounds like you are having a timing problem. Do you self a favor and get a DVD on fly casting.

 

[wfosborn]

Yup, that's me Frank. I'm finally catching a few fish this year, but I think only because it's one of the biggest runs of pinks on record up here and you just can't help but catch them.

Went out again today and borrowed a friends fly pole that has a fairly slow action on it. Pretty similiar to my old rod. After using his rod for a while I picked mine back up and was able to cast much better with a lot less bounce to it but still not totally gone. Seems like using a small flick with my wrist at the end of my backcast and less pulling with my arm helps, does this make sense or am I leading myself into worse shape doing this? Is there a different style of casting you need to use with faster action rods?

I did go borrow some VHS tapes on fly casting from the fly shop here, now I just need to get a working VCR to watch them on . . .

 

[Frank Whiton]

Hi wfosborn,

Where are you fishing in Alaska? Glad to hear you are catching some fish. That is what it is all about even if our cast are a little wanting.

If you get a chance to cast a fast action rod it would be interesting to see how you cast a fast action rod. The casting stroke is usually better for most if the wrist is not too lose or active. Some people cast quite well with a lot of wrist movement but it generally is not the best method. The casting stroke as taught by Lefty Kreh is accelerated near the end of the stroke and then abruptly stopped. It is some what like a flick but is not done with a wrist flick. I have to tell you that helping you solve a casting problem with out seeing you cast is really tough.

 

[wfosborn]

Hi Frank,

I'm in Cordova in Prince William Sound. Tons of humpies and dogs here right now, and the Silvers are starting to show up too. Ton's of fun catching them, but even if I don't get anything it's still good just to get out there.

I know it's pretty hard to troubleshoot a cast without seeing it, I'm hoping I can get out with some of the excellent fly-fishermen around here and get some tips from them. I'll try to borrow a fast action rod from one of them and see how that feels to me.

I found a guide written by Lefty Kreh, I'll read through it again. I appreciate the help and advice.

--Will

 

[cliftz]

I was getting a 'bounce' or continued oscillation in a fly rod once using a 4
wt forward floater. I changed to a lighter line and a double taper and
the problem went away. When I forward cast the previous line I get numerous
curves in the line as it lay down. I was thinking, "Why can't I do this on
a river?"
Something that might cause the s'curve on the forward cast is stopping the
rod abruptly and letting the line fall down rather than setting the line on the
water.
There are numerous fly casting vids on YouTube.
So, how's it coming so far?

 

[Jackster]

You could try using the least amount of power needed to get the cast done. It almost sounds like you're overpowering the rod yet coming up with neat ways to mask it, like that backward drift.
I was in an casting instructors class at an FFF conclave this summer and the subject of the bounce, or wave in the line came up. The general consensus by the instructors was to not worry about it unless it's extreme because that wave will be pulled out by the line.
Better than video most times, hunt down a certified casting instructor in your area. An hour or two spent with a good instructor gets you real-time evaluation and corrective measures for your cast.

ps... I just did a search for certified casting instructors in Alaska. It looks like there are none! Study, practice and be the first!

 

[wfosborn]

Well, where I'm at is pretty small and it's hard to get out so I don't think I'll see an instructor anytime soon. But as life would have it, there is an ex-instructor here who has been giving me some help. Been a while since I've been back to this post so I'll see if I can remember what I've done since then. . .

As Frank said, making sure the line is moving before I pickup has helped. I make sure I'm bringing in line before I pickup now, that has helped. Also, a firmer wrist (with a snap of the wrist ) on the pickup/backcast, combined with some drift and (as I see it as) an exaggeratedly slow laydown seem to take care of the problem.

--

I'll have to look around on YouTube for some fly casting videos. Still haven't done that yet . . .

Thanks,
--W

 

[randyflycaster]

As it was said, it's hard to diagnose from reading a post. I usually get a bounce when my cast is unrolling too fast - especially when I'm casting a
heavy fly - or when my false cast unrolls before I start my next cast.

Some will disagree, but when I have a considerable amount of line out, I always begin my next cast before my false cast unrolls. (Many tournament casters do this.) The faster the line is unrolling and the heavier my fly the sooner I begin my next cast.

Also, because I can't generate the same line speed on my back cast that I can on my forward cast, I begin my false back cast when the loop on my forward false cast is still at least three feet long.

Randy Kadish
The Fly And Spin Casting Site

 

[randyflycaster]

BTW, when I'm making long casts I find one of the most difficult things is to
false cast at the proper speed. If I cast too slowly the cast collapses. If I cast too fast I get a bounce.
Randy Kadish

 

[BigCliff]

Calling the casting instrument a "pole" offends it and it won't want to work with you after that point.

Just kidding, lemme see if I can offer some help. Frank's advice about getting all of the slack out of the line, the fly moving, and the rod tip by the water is right on, but here's one more hint: Try to lift the line off the water to the point where the leader connects before beginning your backward cast. This will make surface tension less of a factor and prevent over-loading as you begin the rear-ward stroke.

Next, try easing up you grip at the end of your forward and rearward stroke. Even without a line on the rod, if you swing forward, and maintain a tight grip while you do the hard stop, the rod will continue to bounce and vibrate. Easing up your grip slightly right as you stop the power stroke should reduce that greatly.

 

[wfosborn]

Hi Randy,

Well, I'm almost always casting a heavy fly, and if I don't get a bounce my line collapses. I'll have to play around with the speed, sounds like it might help out a bit for me. I've tried casting with more line unrolled and it felt like I was pulling against an anchor after a second of a really fast forward cast and almost slingshoting the line forward . . . with the result of it hitting the water hard enough to scare away even the most unconcerned fish.

When I wait until my line seems to be totally straightened out without any drift when I go to make my forward cast my rod (or maybe my wrist) just can't seem to move the heavy fly forward quick enough.

I feel pretty good about my timing, but I've never really paid attention to speed related to line length. I normally just drift with more line out so it has time to straighten out and load the rod more . . . I'll have to pay more attention to that one and see what happens.

--W

 

[shorthaul]

Next, try easing up you grip at the end of your forward and rearward stroke. Even without a line on the rod, if you swing forward, and maintain a tight grip while you do the hard stop, the rod will continue to bounce and vibrate. Easing up your grip slightly right as you stop the power stroke should reduce that greatly.

yup---that causes a lot of rod bounce at the end of your backcast stroke---after the rod has been stopped abrutly at the end of the stroke--relax your hand and that should damp the bouncing (you can add any drifting backward if you like at this point)--your hand wont get tired as easily either----the tip bounce will also telegraph down your line and show up as s-curves in your backcast loop

in dry fry fishing, you can use that to your advantage and stop abruptly and aim your cast a bit above the water and when it bounces back, you can gain a bit of extra slack for a drag float out of your fly---especially downstream

when i get tired i have a tendancy to get a corkscrew in my backcast from not bringing my hand back in a straight line----have someone watch you from behind and see if your hand path ,rod tip path and loop stack are in the same plane

 

[steely]

You could try using the least amount of power needed to get the cast done. It almost sounds like you're overpowering the rod yet coming up with neat ways to mask it, like that backward drift.
I was in an casting instructors class at an FFF conclave this summer and the subject of the bounce, or wave in the line came up. The general consensus by the instructors was to not worry about it unless it's extreme because that wave will be pulled out by the line.
Better than video most times, hunt down a certified casting instructor in your area. An hour or two spent with a good instructor gets you real-time evaluation and corrective measures for your cast.

ps... I just did a search for certified casting instructors in Alaska. It looks like there are none! Study, practice and be the first!

Doesnt mean he is out of luck. Usually if their is a local fly shop their will be a fly casting instructor. And their could be hundreds of people who have passed their CI and live in Alaska, seeing zero listed just means their arent any certified instructors in alaska WHO HAS PAID THEIR FFF DUES :frogdance

I assume the OP is in a area with a lot of guides? Guides, while not necessarily having a CI usually do have to be a decent casting instructor for when they get the newbie fly fisherman.

PS: how much was the casting instructors class? It must of been preety hefty in price. A guy has one in Redding and it is like $300 -$400 for
2 days :icon_excl :icon_excl :icon_excl :icon_excl

PPS: I agree with the others, if you have a great smooth cast, and as a excercise keep on increasing power till you use way too much power, you will find that at the end (the stop) your rod will vibrate

 

[Jackster]

Looking for an instructor that is FFF certified almost assures they have reached certain standards before claiming to be instructors. Standards not only in being able to cast but standards in being able to teach and explain what is going on in the cast as well as having the ability to duplicate and correct faults in the cast. It's a darn good starting point for those looking to improve their game.
I know a guide who claimed to be a casting instructor. His impressive business card even said he was. He went to get certified, after years of teaching others how to cast and couldn't tighten his loop or keep his back cast off the ground, this despite being given hints by the master instructors testing him! I for one am glad he couldn't just buy his way into getting certified.
I've done lessons for fly shops and guides who want their clients to do nothing more than be able to get exactly 30' of line out with some regularity.

As a CCI, I know I worked, practiced and studied hard to get there and I also know it doesn't stop by just getting the certification. The FFF has all sorts of classes available to continue learning and a quarterly newsletter explaining new terms and offereing many different teaching techniques and hints.
Aside from FFF classes many of us take classes when available (I just signed up for a Mark Sedotti class on distance casting) or just get together at times and pick apart each others techniques.

As for the class mentioned earlier, it was at an FFF conclave and was for CCI's. It was held by master instructors and some of the board of governors for the casting branch of the FFF. Two of the instructors of note were Bruce Richards and Mac Brown.
The cost was around $30.00 and the class lasted an entire day.

 

[steely]

Looking for an instructor that is FFF certified almost assures they have reached certain standards before claiming to be instructors. Standards not only in being able to cast but standards in being able to teach and explain what is going on in the cast as well as having the ability to duplicate and correct faults in the cast. It's a darn good starting point for those looking to improve their game.
I know a guide who claimed to be a casting instructor. His impressive business card even said he was. He went to get certified, after years of teaching others how to cast and couldn't tighten his loop or keep his back cast off the ground, this despite being given hints by the master instructors testing him! I for one am glad he couldn't just buy his way into getting certified.
I've done lessons for fly shops and guides who want their clients to do nothing more than be able to get exactly 30' of line out with some regularity.

As a CCI, I know I worked, practiced and studied hard to get there and I also know it doesn't stop by just getting the certification. The FFF has all sorts of classes available to continue learning and a quarterly newsletter explaining new terms and offereing many different teaching techniques and hints.
Aside from FFF classes many of us take classes when available (I just signed up for a Mark Sedotti class on distance casting) or just get together at times and pick apart each others techniques.

As for the class mentioned earlier, it was at an FFF conclave and was for CCI's. It was held by master instructors and some of the board of governors for the casting branch of the FFF. Two of the instructors of note were Bruce Richards and Mac Brown.
The cost was around $30.00 and the class lasted an entire day.

Funny, I cant even get a hour with a CCI where I live for $30. A 2 day class on becoming a CCI is $400.

Even Funnier, Bruce ALLMIGHTY HIMSELF has emailed me that it is expected that someone doing the CCI test have at least two year of teaching experience:icon_excl :icon_excl :icon_excl :icon_excl

*I* did not think it was ethical to give someone a lesson even for free if I did not have a CCI:icon_excl :icon_excl :icon_excl :icon_excl

I can cast 75 feet, do everything on the CCI test except cast a tailing loop on demand, and only want to give free casting clinics with only a paid lesson here and there to pay for me to be listed as a CCI.

Apparently the cost of living in the state of Jefferson is 10 times the amount it is where you live:icon_excl

 

[Jackster]

Try studying everything you can from the casting area of the FFF website and putting it all to use with lots of practice then take the CCI exam when you feel comfortable with it. It didn't cost me a dime to study and practice for the exam. Though I never took a course on how to pass it I did take every advantage of learning everything I could about it from books, magazines, videos and picking the brains of some very good casters.

I can almost see Bruce's point too. What the sense of having an instructors license if there's doubt you can instruct?

As for charging for lessons, most times I don't such as when giving a lesson if they join our FFF club, if it's kids involved, an open house and things along those lines.
If I'm going too far out-of-pocket, like doing a two day class out of town on becoming certified instructor sure I'll charge. It's that or sleep in the dog house when I get home.

 

[wfosborn]

Been a while since I looked at this thread, I'm glad it got resurrected. While the thread is now somewhat OT, going back over the posts after another year fishing has again given me some more ideas (and a lot more insight) on improving my casting. Hoping to do some winter fishing here this week if everything hasn't totally frozen over so I'll have to play around again and experiment. Guess the "down" season is good for that.

--W

 

[wfosborn]

Thought I'd put an update in . . .

Got a couple of nice Sage rods now and have been playing with my casting a little. Using the same style I've been for casting with the new Sage's I'm getting some great line speed and able to fairly easily get all the casting line out and a good portion of the the thinner running line shot out now. I've been watching some video of casting and my style seems to resemble Rajeef's (Did I spell that right) style, so maybe there is some hope for my casting yet.

Out a couple of days ago in some pretty heavy wind from my back with my new #6 I was able to easily straighten out my backcast and get out at least 60' of line. With the Lamiglass #8 I could only hope for about 20' in those conditions. Bounce is totally gone with the new rods, but if I pick up my Lamiglass I still get it. I can make it happen with the Sage's if I really want to, but I'm not quite sure how. I just try to make the line snake out and it does . . .

--W

 

[Frank Whiton]

Hi wfosborn,

Glad to see an update. It sounds like you have things under control. What Model Sage rods did you get? I hope you have a good season this year.

Frank