Why does my line fall all squiggly?

[busbus]

Can't make it any more descriptive than that...I have to admit, I am a newbie and am probably doing a lot of things wrong. The only thing I have really been doing is the basic roll cast. Sometimes it works like a charm; other times, it don't go nowhere; but, most of the time, it falls like a snake in the water.

Here are a couple things I know that I do:

1. I muscle it too much. Must be carryover from spin casting.
2. I "think" I am bringing my forward cast down too far because it seems like the rod is at the 9:00 or even 8:00 spot but I can't figure out if I am coming to a stop prior to that or not...probably makes no difference.
3. It seems to me that I may be straightening my arm out as I cast. Sort of like I am trying to put English on a cue ball after I shoot the shot.

I swear I cast TWICE almost all the time. The first cast usually stinks because I don't even lift the fly out of the water. Other times, it squiggles much more than usual and I hastily pull it back in and try again.

I know I need to relax because I have proven that to myself but it seems like I tense up all the time trying to get that fly to go further.


By the way, you guys have created a monster. I just HAD to go out again today even though it was raining pretty darn hard. Went to a smallish, way overfished creek by my house and none of the rocks I am used to seeing were less than six-inches below water. Did manage to catch a nice small mouth but lost four flies in a little over an hour's worth of fishing. But had a really good time, except for the horrific casts.

 

[silver creek]

Video a cast and post it.

 

[gatortransplant]

Silver is right on about this, but your number 2 reason there may be the reason your cast is going all squiggly. If you don't have a good stop in your forward cast, energy may not be fully transferred into your line, thus not carrying it all the way out (and making it all squiggly). Not very well described by me there, but that sounds like a possible cause.

Keep at it! And remember to keep having fun

 

[imxer]

BUS

Agree with AJ, if your rod tip is "getting down" ahead of your line I think the line will
land, as you put it, "squiggly".

Paul

 

[williamhj]

If you post a video I'm sure one of the folks on here can give some insights (I'm not good enough to offer such advice).

Moving beyond your original question, I'd encourage you to get with a casting instructor of some sort, it doesn't cost much. I think the LL Bean in Pittsburgh offers courses and I'm sure local fly shops have something as well. My first Spring fly fishing I went to one of the free Orvis fly fishing 101 classes. The time with the instructor wasn't long. He tweaked a few things rather quickly and I saw dramatic improvement. If you head out with a guide you can say you want to learn: help with casting, reading the water, fly selection, etc. I've found guides seem to enjoy sharing knowledge rather than just getting people to catch a bunch of fish. I've learned a lot that way. My $.02

 

[cb]

. It seems to me that I may be straightening my arm out as I cast.

This sounds to me like you are 'pushing' the rod. Try this drill: {assuming you are right handed} make sure your elbow never leaves your side and your right hand is NEVER more than 12-15 inches away from your ear. This way you will get 'control' of your rod tip and your cast will more snappy and energetic and should turn over better.

Good luck!

 

[fredaevans]

Silver is right on about this, but your number 2 reason there may be the reason your cast is going all squiggly. If you don't have a good stop in your forward cast, energy may not be fully transferred into your line, thus not carrying it all the way out (and making it all squiggly). Not very well described by me there, but that sounds like a possible cause.

Keep at it! And remember to keep having fun

+1 here. Assuming the proper line on the rod this is a 90% probability, or to re-state that 'Gravity Works.' You see this all the time with New 2hander casters. What I tell the folks is a firm stop with your rod tip aimed OVER the tallest tree you can see (that will be at that 10' oclock thing

 

[wt bash]

That's not necessarily a bad thing. Alot of dry fly fishing requires you throw those squiggles in, like the "slack cast". Having a little extra line on the water to begin with will set you up for making your mends without impacting the fly's dead drift too much. As long as you are on target as to where the fly lands don't sweat it.

 

[silver creek]

The reason I asked for a video is that I can just about guarantee that there are several casting faults and not just one. And when there are several problems, there is a sequence in which they should be corrected. Or in some cases, a single change will correct several problems simultaneously.

It all comes back to seeing the fault before we can correct the fault. Otherwise it is guess work.

 

[busbus]

Okay. I will see what I can do. I am not that great with video junk. Eventhough I am an IT geek, I am total old school. Maybe when my son is home from college, he can video me.

I can say this for sure: I will be torallty embarrassed because I bet absolutely everything I do is wrong. But I do get the fly more or less in the spot I want it to go. The line is just not tight at all. And all I can really do is roll cast.

 

[silver creek]

Okay. I will see what I can do. I am not that great with video junk. Eventhough I am an IT geek, I am total old school. Maybe when my son is home from college, he can video me.

I can say this for sure: I will be torallty embarrassed because I bet absolutely everything I do is wrong. But I do get the fly more or less in the spot I want it to go. The line is just not tight at all. And all I can really do is roll cast.

I think most smart phones take videos now and even my iPod touch does.

Do a side view against a contrasting colored building to the fly line. So if the fly line is dark, do it against a light colored building if possible.

 

[jhardin80]

My casts were doing the same thing, what helped me a lot was getting on youtube and watching some casting videos. There are several on there that are good and explain what and how to do it. Then I just go out in the back yard and I practiced a lot with it. Once I did that my casts were much better than before and I think part of my problem now is the cheap rod, reel, line combo I have. Waiting for xmas to get my new stuff and see if I am correct about that.

Practice, Practice, Practice!

Good Luck and keep having fun!

 

[silver creek]

My casts were doing the same thing, what helped me a lot was getting on youtube and watching some casting videos. There are several on there that are good and explain what and how to do it. Then I just go out in the back yard and I practiced a lot with it. Once I did that my casts were much better than before and I think part of my problem now is the cheap rod, reel, line combo I have. Waiting for xmas to get my new stuff and see if I am correct about that.

Practice, Practice, Practice!

Good Luck and keep having fun!

I'll agree that videos are better than no video BUT they are not the total solution even with practice.

Here's the problem I see again and again. The newbie thinks he/she is doing what the the caster in the video is doing but they are not. Typically, they go way to far back, they use too much arm extension, they have poor stops, etc, etc.

The problem is they cannot see themselves cast, and so they have no point of reference from which to make the needed corrections. Is it not logical that if you are going to learn from a video, you should have a video of yourself to compare what you are doing with what the video instructor is doing?

Even when I am standing by their side, most newbies cannot duplicate what I tell them to do unless I break their casting motion down, and make stepwise corrections.

The crux of the issue is that practice does not make perfect. Perfect Practice makes perfect. The great majority of beginners trying to teach themselves, cannot practice perfectly without seeing themselves cast or having someone knowledgeable correct them.

The beauty of teaching a group of people to cast is that I can point to another beginner with the same casting fault, and show them what they are doing right or wrong. So the other caster becomes the "video" of what the caster is doing right or wrong.

Correcting a casting fault by yourself is a three step process. First you need to see what the fault is with your own eyes. Step two is to try to correct the fault. Step three is to verify that you have corrected the fault. All three require the beginner to "see" the fault and the correction.

How can the beginner do all three steps by himself? It is d*mn hard without a video of himself as a reference.

An example is the backcast. It is very difficult for a beginner to "feel" the backcast so he turns and watches his backcast to get visual cues. It is apparent that the original poster is unable to "see" or "feel" what he is doing wrong. If he could, there would be no need to ask for help. Thus, I suggest a video.

 

[busbus]

Thanks, Silver,

You are absolutely correct. I have no clue what I am doing wrong. I am sure there are multiple things. I am sort of happy with the fact that I can more or less get the fly to go where I want it to go but the line is an ugly mess on the water. I am going to try to get a video.

And you are right: I simply cannot see my fly going out behind me.

The more I think of it, the more I think I may be best served by going to that free LL Bean class or go to my local Orvis shop and get a one-on-one lesson for $35 or $40.

No matter what I do, post a video here or go see somebody in person, I am going to be hugely humbled and embarrassed, I am sure.


bus

 

[Jackster]

The more I think of it, the more I think I may be best served by going to that free LL Bean class or go to my local Orvis shop and get a one-on-one lesson for $35 or $40.

That could very well be the best investment you will make in fly fishing.
Watching video and reading books is good reinforcement and excellent for unburying some secret that might fix a fault you find yourself throwing but you have to first know what good is to compare to.
I good instructor will give you instant feedback that you use right then and there to reinforce what you are learning. A good instructor will also know and explain your faults and teach you the cures for them.
I'm not completely happy when instructing until the student corrects the fault(s) they're working on on their own.
It does a teacher good when the student throws a bad cast and out loud says what he did wrong and then takes the steps to correct it himself. It is rather shocking how many people I work with will say out loud that they blew a cast, why it went bad and what they'll do to correct it.
Practice after a lesson with a good instructor produces good, corrective practice as the student now knows the fault and how to correct it.

If you go the this site: Councils find the council in your area and hopefully an IFFF club in your area. The IFFF makes no bones about it, amongst promoting conservation for all fish in all waters, it is a fly fishing educational organization whose goal is to promote fly fishing in all of it's many facets from tying to casting to conservation.
The reason I brought this up (and got sidetracked it seems!) is because each club generally has the staff and gear to help you along in your journey as a fly fisher.
The annual conclaves or festivals each council generally has each year is usually crammed with classes, speakers and other opportunities to learn from the best. Check 'em out!

 

[williamhj]

x2 for having an in-the-flesh instructor. In my own experience, books and videos were helpful, it helped more when an instructor gave me advice and corrections. What really made the difference was when he stood right next to me to keep my arm from moving too far from my body, put his hand up to stop me from going too far back, and then suddenly stepped in front of me to halt my forward cast. This gave me a physical sense of what a better casting stroke felt like. I was able to feel it and remember that motion rather than trying to imagine how the words would translate into a casting motion that I couldn't see.

It was a big help though I know I still have more to learn.

 

[jhardin80]

I'll agree that videos are better than no video BUT they are not the total solution even with practice.

Here's the problem I see again and again. The newbie thinks he/she is doing what the the caster in the video is doing but they are not. Typically, they go way to far back, they use too much arm extension, they have poor stops, etc, etc.

The problem is they cannot see themselves cast, and so they have no point of reference from which to make the needed corrections. Is it not logical that if you are going to learn from a video, you should have a video of yourself to compare what you are doing with what the video instructor is doing?

Even when I am standing by their side, most newbies cannot duplicate what I tell them to do unless I break their casting motion down, and make stepwise corrections.

The crux of the issue is that practice does not make perfect. Perfect Practice makes perfect. The great majority of beginners trying to teach themselves, cannot practice perfectly without seeing themselves cast or having someone knowledgeable correct them.

The beauty of teaching a group of people to cast is that I can point to another beginner with the same casting fault, and show them what they are doing right or wrong. So the other caster becomes the "video" of what the caster is doing right or wrong.

Correcting a casting fault by yourself is a three step process. First you need to see what the fault is with your own eyes. Step two is to try to correct the fault. Step three is to verify that you have corrected the fault. All three require the beginner to "see" the fault and the correction.

How can the beginner do all three steps by himself? It is d*mn hard without a video of himself as a reference.

An example is the backcast. It is very difficult for a beginner to "feel" the backcast so he turns and watches his backcast to get visual cues. It is apparent that the original poster is unable to "see" or "feel" what he is doing wrong. If he could, there would be no need to ask for help. Thus, I suggest a video.

Didn't mean to light a fire under you. I simply stated that the videos helped me tremendously. I didn't know about the 2 and 10 positions or making a stop or any of that and after watching a few good videos that explained those things I was able to make much better casts, I didn't say it was going to make me an expert caster or that I was done by just watching videos. I too should still go take a class but for now on a **** rod, reel, line combo, I'm making casts that catch fish now when, before, I wasn't doing so well.

THE VIDEOS HELPED ME!!

 

[wjc]

I am going to try to get a video.

Good plan! Although it's nice, it is not necessary that the fly line be visable, just the entire casting stroke and as much of the rod as possible should be in the frame. It should be taken from the side.

And you are right: I simply cannot see my fly going out behind me.

After stretching your line to remove coils, try standing sideways in a field (wind at your back) and doing pickups and laydowns along a line parallel with your feet (imaginary if no sidewalk or rope available) with the rod horizontal. Watch the loops closely in both directions and try to narrow them.

Follow the line down with the rod tip at the end of each laydown so your rod tip wll be almost touching the ground to eliminate all slack for the next pickup. If you still have slack, move away from the end of the fly line before the next pickup and lay down.

If you are getting wide loops, do you know how to narrow them?