Fun with tailing loops!

[turbineblade]

Hey - I had a lot of time this weekend to work on my cast even more.

I've reached a point! I can now throw a wicked tailing loop at will! I was surprisingly happy about this for some reason. I can go from smooth power application and a tight loop, 'good' cast to applying "power" (more like 'speed' to me) too early in the cast and/or stopping the casting stroke too early and bam -- awesome, insane tailing loops. A few I can throw so well that the fly line knots itself - not just the leader. Those are awesome and definitely my favorite.

I need to do a video of 'good cast' versus 'bad cast' back to back .

Does anyone else enjoy this ability? I was casting with my wife today and she's doing well but her casting is not quite up to my own, so being able to throw a tailing loop seemed to help her see how it happens a bit better.

Man, just a few months back I threw these suckers regularly when attempting longer casts and didn't really have a good understand of "why" I was screwing up. I like this much better.

 

[wjc]

I'm back from fishing.

Does anyone else enjoy this ability?

Absolutely! I actually do a cast I call "The Mango Joe" cast when trying to get under overhanging mango (AKA:Mangrove) trees to catch Mango snapper (AKA Mangrove snapper). Actually, for many years I thought Mangrove Snapper WERE Mango Snapper since that's what everyone I knew used to call them.

It only works with a heavy fly and from the bow of a skiff.. To do it, you breaK the 180 degree rule with high backcast and a very high forward cast.

But you also must apply an abrupt force and a haul way, way too early along with way too short a casting stroke. This causes a ridiculous concave tip path with the rod tip abruptly popping up way too high.

It also must be done with the rod held off- vertical and no wind into your casting shoulder.

What happens is that a "normal" loop will form off the tip. But the momentum of the inrushing line is in a downward direction. So the top loop will start to close very quickly and then another loop will form beneath it upside down and start overtaking the top loop. That lower loop has a more downward trajectory.

But the upper loop will continue toward the target also and form a complete circle counteracting the downward trajectory (when done "right") of the lower loop and the fly will skim along just above the water and the leader will turn over from the bottom side up. When the time is right, you lower the rod tip feeding in slack, and the fly will precede the line into the hole in the mangos.

The lower loop momentum will pull the upper loop/circle out straight.

You cannot do it from the cockpit of the skiff or the fly is very likely to hit the gunwales. It is basically an adaption from cane pole fishing.

You can practice it on grass with some split shot and yarn. Just remember to cast off-vertical because the splitshot will be passing well beneath the rod tip and well below your head height. Try it with a fairly short leader at 30 feet or so distance.

A more descriptive term would be something like "the floating-hinge toppling swing cast". The upper loop being the floating hinge and the lower loop being the swing attached to it.

We had a decent late afternoon fishing considering 12-18 wind. Fortunately, we had two periods of calm lasting about 20 minutes each and got all the meager bites during those calm periods. Neither of us had everr caught any peacocks there but today we got three. I hope they don't adversely affect the LM bass - because there are some enormous ones in there. But I did manage to lose two very nice ones today and caught a smaller one and all were fat and sassy. None had three eyes, no big tumors or anything, so hopefully the Top Secret defoliation project will not have any adverse effects on the fish and forage.

 

[Flyfisher for men]

I've reached a point! I can now throw a wicked tailing loop at will! I was surprisingly happy about this for some reason...

Does anyone else enjoy this ability? I was casting with my wife today and she's doing well but her casting is not quite up to my own, so being able to throw a tailing loop seemed to help her see how it happens a bit better.

Now, with more work and practice you'll be casting perfect tailing loops everytime just like me!

This sounds like something I read once. I understand casting instructors have to do this as part of the regimine (sp?). They have to know how it happens to be able to correct it and also to demonstrate it to a student.

Apparently, it gives a number of them trouble because they spent so much time learning to do it right and then have to unlearn so they can do it wrong.

 

[turbineblade]

Yeah, I agree. Sometimes I try to apply power too early and use a casting arc that it too small in order to throw a tailing loop but I accidentally throw a decent cast!

It's kind of fun to go back and forth between the 2.

 

[wt bash]

Try a tapered leader

 

[turbineblade]

You know, I actually tied a couple of tapered leaders after that thread just to see if it changed my opinion at all. I used the easy 20 >> 15 >> 10 >> 6 formula -- all mono.

Honestly, I'm about ready to say that there's no way in hell you'll all of the sudden go from throwing a crappy cast with a tailing loop to a "good cast" simply by switching to a tapered leader. Unless using one somehow provides you a psychological advantage and leads to you casting with smooth power and a large enough casting arc so the rod follows a straight-line path...?

I may be an idiot for using a level leader, but I'd be very comfortable calling you an idiot for suggesting that a tapered leader will fix errors in your casting technique! You can't buy your way into a good cast!

Plus, I still feel they're too much hassle for the return. They sink slower -- take more time to hassle with, and when nymphing or using a streamer on the bottom I hang up so much that they're just not worth my time and effort. Please use them if you like 'em -- I may use one for dries on the Current River this coming week -- but nothing subsurface.

Oh and I'm glad to see you around again fichy -- you provided so much substance/reasonable explanation in your retorts in the previous thread. Do you like calicos, or are you more of a manx guy? Oh, and I have some excellent spools of 3X tippet that you're welcome to use for striped bass fishing if you PM me.

You should get into guiding and tell your beginning casters that the reason they're throwing a tailing loop is because they aren't using a tapered leader, lol.

 

[wt bash]

Obviously you are the idiot who can't take a joke, who pissed in your coffee?

 

[turbineblade]

No one pissed in my fruit loops this morning . I'm very sarcastic -- nothing personal meant.

 

[wt bash]

Nuff' said...

 

[fichy]

You know I actually have used 3x for small flies when stripers have keyed on small grass shrimp and copepods. I've landed fish to 34" on it. How many stripers have you landed? I caught 1200 in '98 . It's my standard for steelhead and I've landed hundreds of those also.And yes I have guided and instructed. I like tapered leaders, not only because they turn over well, but I don't snap the whole leader off when they do snag. You might show a little respect to others who have obviously fished for decades more than you. Tapered leaders also allow you to slow down when a more delicate presentation and accuracy is needed like when your sightfishing a flat. You're not trying to develop more line speed just to straighten the leader. Level leaders make wind resistant flies tough to throw, too. I must admit I used level leaders when I was 10-11 years old. You can be as sarcastic as you want hiding behind a computer, not going to make you a good fisherman or respected.

 

[turbineblade]

Tapered leaders also allow you to slow down when a more delicate presentation and accuracy is needed like when your sightfishing a flat.

I hesitate to agree with you on anything since you seem to be more inclined to hurl childish insults than to explain any point, but I can't argue with this. I hadn't considered flats, but I can see this with dry flies.

I must admit I used level leaders when I was 10-11 years old. You can be as sarcastic as you want hiding behind a computer, not going to make you a good fisherman or respected.

Explain to me how one of two people posting on an online fly fishing forum is "hiding behind a computer"? What does that even mean?

You might show a little respect to others who have obviously fished for decades more than you.

Respect is a two-way street and if you look at your posts they're mostly one-line insults. I couldn't care less how old you are or whether you've caught 1225 fish in one year -- you won't get respect until you give it.

Plus, having done something longer really means very little to me. I've seen guys who've said "oh yeah, I've been fly fishing for years" and then they can't cast a weighted #14 brassie 20 feet.

And again, tailing loops have nothing to do with the taper of a leader. This is what this thread was about. Thus, your years of experience may not have been so productive.

 

[fichy]

My years have served me very well, good luck with yours.

 

[Guest1]

1200 in 98? That's more than 3/day for the entire year, zero days off. Were you square hooking them?

I hesitate to agree with you on anything since you seem to be more inclined to hurl childish insults

if you look at your posts they're mostly one-line insults.

:shades: Uh... hem. not sayin anything......

 

[fichy]

Not saying anything? Isn't that kind of unusual for you? When stripers run and are blitzing you can have some amazing days with very high numbers . I also was catching fish for a study being done. I know people that have caught far more. I only insult those who are snarky to me first. In both your case, Dan, and TB's that's what happened. I have zero investment in this forum or any of the people here, so I really don't care what you or TB think. Just be sure I won't back down if you insult me and will continue to give opinions on things I think your wrong on. You're free to do the same, needless to say. Both of you like to do things differently. That's commendable, just don't think you can shove it down people's throats.

 

[Guest1]

I think it's more of you're a thin skinned whiney boy. Just looks that way. Thought you might wanna know, and uh still don't believe your numbers.

 

[fichy]

Yeah and I think your compensating for something with those long rods.

 

[wt bash]

In all fairness its not a great feat to catch numbers of bass like that over the course of a year provided you live in the right location and have the time.

 

[swirlchaser]

In all fairness its not a great feat to catch numbers of bass like that over the course of a year provided you live in the right location and have the time.

That's a tough call Bill, I have a retired friend who lives 15mins from the Troy Damn. Fishes 3-4X a week with spinning gear and slays them but 1200 is certainly an impressive feat.

 

[wt bash]

In hind sight 1200 is a high number but a boat combined with weekdays its not impossible. That said I've never kept score as to how many what day and when. I do remember '98 though and it was one of those epic cycle years. Plus it was 98' I turned 19 and was finally trusted to take out my uncle's boat solo.

 

[swirlchaser]

In hind sight 1200 is a high number but a boat combined with weekdays its not impossible. That said I've never kept score as to how many what day and when. I do remember '98 though and it was one of those epic cycle years. Plus it was 98' I turned 19 and was finally trusted to take out my uncle's boat solo.

Don't get me wrong, we've had 40-50 fish days up there but the weather will shut you down completely some days. You have to be a serious die hard to approach those number.