I been watching some spey casting on Utube, unbelievably beautiful, approaching surreal. I can't justify the expense of a new outfit, but would like to learn some single handed techniques. Do i get Scott Mackenzies DVD and try to adapt or is their single handed spey info available? Thanks
Single handed spey casting
- Thread starter Leahcim
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Frank Whiton
Most Senior Member
Hi Leahcim,
There are a couple of DVD's that give single handed casts. I have not seen any of them. Here is one from Kaufmann's Streamborn.
The Art of Spey Casting is 3hrs 30minutes long. That would be a big bang for the buck. I would call Kaufmann's and ask them how much single handed casting is in the DVD. If you buy a DVD please let us know which one you choose and how good it is.
Here is some more information about The Art of Spey Casting from The Fly Shop:
Basic and advanced Spey instruction for both single and double-handed rods from 17 world experts (Siem, Rajeff, Anderson, Gawesworth,Choate, etc.). Shot in San Francisco, produced by Sage and narrated by Lani Waller.
With this additional information it seems like a good choice.
Frank
the Art Of Spey Casting For Single- And Double-Handed Rods
Jeffery Pill. Learn the basic and advanced Spey casting techniques for both single and two-handed rods. Watch and learn as 17 of the world's best casters share their styles and skills through multi-camera coverage of easy-to-follow demonstrations on rivers in actual fishing situations. Chapters include 13 demonstrations of Spey casting techniques plus six bonus chapters. DVD, 3 hours 30 minutes.
There are a couple of DVD's that give single handed casts. I have not seen any of them. Here is one from Kaufmann's Streamborn.
The Art of Spey Casting is 3hrs 30minutes long. That would be a big bang for the buck. I would call Kaufmann's and ask them how much single handed casting is in the DVD. If you buy a DVD please let us know which one you choose and how good it is.
Here is some more information about The Art of Spey Casting from The Fly Shop:
Basic and advanced Spey instruction for both single and double-handed rods from 17 world experts (Siem, Rajeff, Anderson, Gawesworth,Choate, etc.). Shot in San Francisco, produced by Sage and narrated by Lani Waller.
With this additional information it seems like a good choice.
Frank
the Art Of Spey Casting For Single- And Double-Handed Rods
Jeffery Pill. Learn the basic and advanced Spey casting techniques for both single and two-handed rods. Watch and learn as 17 of the world's best casters share their styles and skills through multi-camera coverage of easy-to-follow demonstrations on rivers in actual fishing situations. Chapters include 13 demonstrations of Spey casting techniques plus six bonus chapters. DVD, 3 hours 30 minutes.
Simon Gawesworth has an excellent spey casting video that covers a lot of two-handed casting but also nicely covers single-handed spey work.
He hooked me on single handed spey casting at the shows he used to do in Charlotte. Even though we fish a lot of small streams down here, he showed the value of spey techiques for roll casting darn near anywhere you wanted to. His technique was great. He took of his shoes and socks and waded the casting lane at the shows tossing neat little single-handed spey casts all over the pond. If he is at a show near you it's well worth watching him if he is doing the small stream single-handed demonstration.
Here's a teaser on his DVD:
DVDs
He hooked me on single handed spey casting at the shows he used to do in Charlotte. Even though we fish a lot of small streams down here, he showed the value of spey techiques for roll casting darn near anywhere you wanted to. His technique was great. He took of his shoes and socks and waded the casting lane at the shows tossing neat little single-handed spey casts all over the pond. If he is at a show near you it's well worth watching him if he is doing the small stream single-handed demonstration.
Here's a teaser on his DVD:
DVDs
randyflycaster
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The Mackenzie video doesn't have much about single-handed spey casting. What I wonder about is if single-handed spey casting works better when we overline our fly rods about three-weights. (Which is what we should do if we use a traditional line on a spey rod.)
Randy
Randy
Simons techniques work just fine with your standard floating line. So good in fact, I never even considered a change in lines.
Understand though, the s/h spey casts I'm making are no further than a traditional roll cast. I'm using the s/h mainly for change of direction on a roll cast on order to not have the line cross over itself or to set up the next cast.
BigCliff
Well-known member
The answer to that is no. However, I do find that a medium action tends to spey cast better than a fast one. I also think long bellied WFF lines (SA's XXD, Rio's Nymph) spey cast MUCH better than a normal WFF. A DT will work better still.
That is interesting. Does that hold true even if the head is never outside of the rod?
I was looking at a different thread and this thread popped up in the "related posts" at the bottom of the page. First let me say I strongly suggest you use spey lines and spey lines only on spey rods. Over lining 3 weights is a statement that has popped up a few times. I don't know how this kind of stuff gets started but in my opinion is not only wrong but explitive deleted wrong.
First the spey rod thing. Spey rods all have a grain window. The amount of weight, top and bottom end the rod works best with. This grain window should be followed like it was handed down from Moses carved in stone. Regardless of the type of line used and it should always be a spey line.
Second the grain window rule applies to switch rods as well. You can use a traditional single hand line or a spey line as long as the lines falls in the grain window for the rod. You will like a spey line better, and second best, key word being second, is a traditional line with a longer than the normal 30' shooting head. On this type of line if the head and the running line are not different colors, you will need to mark where the head/running line junction is.
Third, overlining a single hand rod by three weight is just not a good idea. Even if you needed to overline three weights to make it work, why would you wreck the overhead casting ability of the rod to do a type of cast that face it, if you were going to do it all the time why not just get a spey rod. However. You do not need to overline the rod AT ALL. If you want to spey cast with a single hand rod, just mark where the head/Running Line junction is and because you need to have the head out of the rod to do these casts or at least very close to all the way out. The best lines for doing spey casts on a single hand rod are lines like the Trevor Morgan line. It has a green running line and a white head that is 43 1/2' long on the 7 wt. line. The last time this came up, I made a video to show just how wrong the idea you need to overline by 3 weights to do this is. I used a single hand 8 weight rod and the Trevor Morgan 7 weight line. So I am underlined by a full weight. 9' leader, plus the 9 foot on rod, plus the 43 1/2' of shooting head puts the fly 61 1/2' -10% for squiggles = about 60' away just rolling the head out. Shoot another 10 or 15' of running line and, well you get the idea. Once you get used to the rod and the line you should be able to shoot 20' of running line fairly easily. Here is video. Four line weights under what people keep saying you need.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zPvfADZdo4"]Single hand spey casting, underlined.[/ame]
The only reason I revived this old dead thread is because someone, like it happened to me, may see this pop up one day in the Similar Threads thing at the bottom. I'd hate to see someone go and buy a line 3 weights to heavy for the rod they own only to find out later at the cost of $??? just how wrong this notion is. Randy was just asking the question here but it has popped up in other spots where it was a statement and not a question. Nobody in this thread involved.
I agree, a more moderate rod will spey cast better. The rod I was using in this video is a pretty fast action rod. The long bellied lines is right on. Another good one is the AirFlo 40+ Expert. It's head is 44'
randyflycaster
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Diver Dan,
Your point is well taken. Some of us, when we're starting out with spey casting, don't have the money to buy a spey line, but we might have a traditional line three or four weights higher than our spey rod. According to the folks at Rio, the line will work.
Will it work on a traditional fly rod if we want to spey cast? Probably not.
I believe the best Spey Casting video is Rio's Modern Spey Casting. The Mackenzie video is for casting long-belly lines.
IMHO, when it comes to spey casting, different lines require different kinds of casts.
Randy
Your point is well taken. Some of us, when we're starting out with spey casting, don't have the money to buy a spey line, but we might have a traditional line three or four weights higher than our spey rod. According to the folks at Rio, the line will work.
Will it work on a traditional fly rod if we want to spey cast? Probably not.
I believe the best Spey Casting video is Rio's Modern Spey Casting. The Mackenzie video is for casting long-belly lines.
IMHO, when it comes to spey casting, different lines require different kinds of casts.
Randy
Absolutely. Traditional style casting works with longer heads where as Scandi style works better with faster rods and much shorter heads.
I recently talked to someone who was trying a new spey rod with a single hand line. I told him I would not do it because not only are the heads to short but he will likely develope bad habits that may be hard to break once he can afford the line.
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Diver Dan... that is all well and good but the single-handed spey casts I'm talking about or in very small streams with casts in the 20-30' range at best. No need at all for special rods or lines. Sometimes we go for hours or even a whole day never with an overhead cast. There is simply no room when wading in a rhodo tunnel that is 10' wide. What IS needed is a way to go from left to right or vice-versa when roll casting with crossing your line and tangling.
Yah, I know. The last post I was talking about something someone said about two hand rods. I don't change lines or rods to do single hand spey casts either. What I was referring to there is strictly two hand stuff. Like in Scandi style casting the top hand does almost none of the work while the bottom hand does almost all of it. They use shorter heavy heads and faster action rods with shorter top grips. Traditional two hand casting uses longer heads and the top hand does most of the work. In my case at least 80%, while the bottom hand does very little. The top grip needs to be longer because the cast is not done the same. In fact a traditional action rod is very slow. More modern lines has made for faster action rods. Still not as fast as a Scandi rod.
On a side note I just tried doing some single hand spey casts with my Canadian friends 6 weight with a $10 K-Mart 4 wt line on it. That's 5 wts. under what people keep saying you need to do to spey cast. (overline by 3) I did a snap T and shot line. Probably got 60 feet or better. No long head and underlined by 2. No special rod, no special line. In fact I'll bet you I can get the 30' you are talking about without a rod at all and the reel taped to my elbow. In fact I am going to go do it tomorrow and video tape it. Hopefully it will put an end to the OVERLINE BY 3 WEIGHTS thing once and for all. I don't know where it started but it's like a dang Vampire. You can shoot it full of holes and it keeps coming back at you.
As for what do you need to get 20 to 30 feet, that does not get the whole head out of the rod so you really don't need to do a spey cast at all. In fact if you have a short rod, say 7' and an equally short leader, you need less than 6 feet of line out of the rod (how long is your arm?) to get 20'. You can't get an anchor point with that little amount of line out of the rod so a spey cast is technically not even possible. (No anchor no spey cast And how tall are you? Does the line even make it to the water?) Even a 30' cast does not get half the head out so it would be tough to do a real spey cast. I have in real close spots like you seem to be describing grabbed the fly, pinched the line to the grip and pulling on the fly load the rod, pointing it at the spot and sling it at it. kinda like shooting a bow. I'm not even sure what that's called, and I have not done it in a long time because this is all big water here.
Okay then... 40-50' casts? I was guessing the distance but I ain't lying about the need for the snake roll and others either. Sometimes you just have to go from here to there without crossing your line.
I think you're referring to the bow and arrow cast. Another staple in the mountain creeks and one of the few casts you can practice in your living room.
I think you're referring to the bow and arrow cast. Another staple in the mountain creeks and one of the few casts you can practice in your living room.
This is what I was thinking of when I read your post. Don't know if it'd work on the water you're talking about. I saw it quite a while back and thought this guy is incredibly smooth and a hell of a caster.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QhDavr24xA"]Flycasting Extreme - advanced trick casts - YouTube[/ame]