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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Byron Bay...easternmost point of Australia
    Posts
    177

    Default Re: What size tippet do I use?

    Good grief,since when is an Ox tippet 10lb.? More like 15 or 16lb.
    methinks,and I always fish this same size tippet with 6 & 8 Bonefish flies.

  2. Default Re: What size tippet do I use?

    As far as I'm aware the X rating system for tippets was based on line diameter.

    Technology over the last few years has increased the whole breaking strain/ line diameter relationship out the curve even in mono. Fluro just adds to that trend.

    Regards,


    Trevor
    Last edited by camelbrass; 05-30-2017 at 02:27 AM.

  3. #13

    Default Re: What size tippet do I use?

    The chart below is from Orvis is what I've used as a rule of thumb. I've noticed that the breaking strength reported for "tippet" is stronger per diameter of "regular" fluoro. I use Berkley Vanish, mainly because it's a third of the price and I don't have to drive an hour to Bass Pro (east) or Orvis (west) to buy actual "tippet."

    4lb Berkley Vanish is .007 diameter and works great with 12-18 sized flies. Which is where I am 80% of the time. 6lb works for slightly larger flies like #8 stonefly nymphs or crawfish imitation flies. Anything larger than that gets 10lb fluoro or tied directly on the 17lb middle section of mono I have in my leaders (for me that is mainly streamers and my warm water flies like poppers and such).

    For reference, my leaders are homemade 30#-17#-10# with appropriate "tippet" attached.


    Q: How many turns on a whip finish? A: "Enough to cover your mistakes" - AK Best

  4. #14

    Default Re: What size tippet do I use?

    This is a huge question I had. As a newbie I couldn't figure it out but this conversation has helped me tremendously. I know there are varying opinions here but believe me I have learned a lot just from these conversations.

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  6. #15

    Default Re: What size tippet do I use?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonbo View Post
    I have heard or read several guys say that the spookier the trout (clear water, heavily fished, wild fish, or what have you), the finer tippet one needs to be using in order to have success. Then others seem to be of the opinion that trout don't care about tippet size.

    There was an article a few years back which followed someone who swam in scuba gear with the trout and observed how they reacted to various fly presentations as some fisherman they had there cast next to him. I guess somehow his presence in scuba gear didn't bother the fish. I can sort of believe that because I've had them refuse my fly presentations but feed right around my feet.

    Anywho, the scuba man came to the belief, it seems, that tippet size didn't matter to the trout, much. It was all about presentation, drag-free drifts, and to avoid "lining" them, that is casting or allowing the line to drift over the fish such that the shadow of the line, especially, entered their vision.

    Then again, I've seen them rise right next to my line on the water, so I donno! They say educated trout are wary of indicators. Okay, so why do they rise and nip at my indicator so often. Are those the trout "school" dropouts?

    Any opinions?
    Anyone who makes all encompassing non qualified statements about trout is probably wrong.

    Just like any animal, trout behavior is population based. All trout do not and will not react identically. So the correct answer is that some trout do not care about tippet size as other trout. The result is that those trout are more likely to be caught and since being caught and released has a mortality rate of 3.5 -5%, the population of those trout will decrease over time. There will be fewer of those trout who grow up to be large trout. So one result is that larger trout are more likely to "care about tippet size." It is a form natural selection by fly fisher.

    The statement, "the spookier the trout (clear water, heavily fished, wild fish, or what have you), the finer tippet one needs to be using in order to have success" is correct because it has a qualifier ---- "spookier trout." So of course spookier trout would be more sensitive to tippet size - that is one definition of being spookier.

    Gary Borger often says the largest trout in the river is the biggest "scaredy cat." The reason it is the largest is that was the spookiest trout from the time it was hatched.

    So trout nip at indicators. What does that prove other than some trout will rise to indicators? It says little about the trout who do not rise to indicators. The problem is that fly fishers assume that all trout will behave like the trout they have caught when we can really say nothing about the fish who have ignored our flies .... or our indicators

    When we fish we are actually sampling the fish population for the fish who will be fooled by our fishing methods. I wrote about this in this post:

    Trout Conditioned Behavior
    Regards,

    Silver



    "Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

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  8. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Crowded Colorado
    Posts
    1,526

    Default Re: What size tippet do I use?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonbo View Post
    I have heard or read several guys say that the spookier the trout (clear water, heavily fished, wild fish, or what have you), the finer tippet one needs to be using in order to have success. Then others seem to be of the opinion that trout don't care about tippet size.

    There was an article a few years back which followed someone who swam in scuba gear with the trout and observed how they reacted to various fly presentations as some fisherman they had there cast next to him. I guess somehow his presence in scuba gear didn't bother the fish. I can sort of believe that because I've had them refuse my fly presentations but feed right around my feet.

    Anywho, the scuba man came to the belief, it seems, that tippet size didn't matter to the trout, much. It was all about presentation, drag-free drifts, and to avoid "lining" them, that is casting or allowing the line to drift over the fish such that the shadow of the line, especially, entered their vision.

    Then again, I've seen them rise right next to my line on the water, so I donno! They say educated trout are wary of indicators. Okay, so why do they rise and nip at my indicator so often. Are those the trout "school" dropouts?

    Any opinions?
    I have a hard time buying the "lining the fish" thing. There are many times I have watched twigs, leaves, and other objects going over fish and the fish are not at all concerned. The fish see objects floating on the surface all day.
    Now, as for casting over the fish and allowing the line to fall onto the water right over the fish, I have seen fish take off from that. But just to have the line pass over head because you casted a few feet above the fish, no, not from what I have seen.
    The only thing human kind ever learned through history, is that through history, human kind has learned nothing.

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  10. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    SF Bay area California
    Posts
    969

    Default Re: What size tippet do I use?

    A few thoughts on tippet size:

    1. Tippet has to be of sufficiently large diameter to impart enough energy to turn over the fly on delivery. Larger heavier fly needs larger diameter tippet.

    2. Tippet has to be of sufficiently small diameter to fit through the eye of the fly. Smaller diameter tippet for smaller diameter hook eye hole. Some people use big eye hooks to allow for the use of larger diameter tippet on smaller flys.

    3. Tippet has to be of sufficient length and diameter to keep drag to a minimum. Well at least if you want a dead drift presentation. Sometimes adding length to a tippet can be used to increase slack in the presentation. Other times smaller diameter tippet can be used to reduce drag due to the smaller diameter.

    4. Tippet needs to be strong enough to land a fish without fighting it to exhaustion.

    The questions that I go through in my head are, can the tippet be thread through the eye of the hook, does it provide the optimum presentation in the form of fly delivery and during the drift does it impart action (drag) to the fly or not.

    Regards,

    Tim C.

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  12. #18
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Lakeville, Conn.
    Posts
    382

    Default Re: What size tippet do I use?

    Quote Originally Posted by ottosmagic13 View Post
    The chart below is from Orvis is what I've used as a rule of thumb. I've noticed that the breaking strength reported for "tippet" is stronger per diameter of "regular" fluoro. I use Berkley Vanish, mainly because it's a third of the price and I don't have to drive an hour to Bass Pro (east) or Orvis (west) to buy actual "tippet."

    4lb Berkley Vanish is .007 diameter and works great with 12-18 sized flies. Which is where I am 80% of the time. 6lb works for slightly larger flies like #8 stonefly nymphs or crawfish imitation flies. Anything larger than that gets 10lb fluoro or tied directly on the 17lb middle section of mono I have in my leaders (for me that is mainly streamers and my warm water flies like poppers and such).
    I do much the same thing. For 90 percent of my trout fishing I carry 1X and 3X Rio mono, and then Berkley Vanish in 2,4,6 and 8 pound. I wind the Vanish on old Rio mono spools so they all stack. It's a pain in the neck but I've gotten good at it.

    I use multiple fly rigs a lot. Assuming a 10 foot four weight rod, I'll use a Rio 9-foot leader tapered to 3X. I'll tie either two or four pound Vanish to that, with droppers off a surgeon's knot a la Davy Wotton. Eventually I wind up with a Frankenleader and have to start again.

    Very rarely do I use anything super light, like 7X mono.

    I use Rio because that's what the fly shops around here carry.

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  14. Default Re: What size tippet do I use?

    If you're in a situation where you need to fish tippet lighter than 5X to be successful, you're just being stubborn and borderline unethical. Go somewhere else. Fish for something less picky. If you're fishing 6 or 7X, you're setting yourself up to torture fish for vanity.

  15. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Byron Bay...easternmost point of Australia
    Posts
    177

    Default Re: What size tippet do I use?

    I found this in the back of my fly tying book FWIW,but in the end it's whatever gets you through the night (within reason).I've had Bonefish spook from too-big diameter tippet,but you can only go down in size so far before it's just silly....
    5x.....0.006....4.75lbs.......14,16,18 (fly size)
    4x.....0.007....6.0lbs.........12,14,16
    3x.....0.008....8.5lbs.........10,12,14
    2x.....0.009....11.5lbs........6,8,10
    1x.....0.010.....13.5lbs.......4,6,8
    Note that fluorocarbon measurements can differ.

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