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  1. #11

    Default Re: Fly Size Guide, or: What Size Fly Is This?

    Quote Originally Posted by jdwy View Post
    Maybe we're overly crude in this part of the west but I, and most guys I know use 5WT rods, 5X leader and 5X tippet regardless whether tying on a tiny size 20 Zebra Midge or a big #8 weighted Stone Fly.
    I did meet a guy some years ago at a crystal clear C&R lake we fish and he said he'd sacrifice tippet invisibility for strength so he uses 3X tippet on those big trout because he hates breaking off a fish.
    The key is he is fishing a LAKE where he does not have to counter drag. I bet he would not use 3X tippet fishing a size 16 fly to rising trout on a river.

    In moving water it is DRAG that is the killer over 90% of the time.

    Some spooky trout can spook at seeing the impression of the leader on the water surface. We can never actually tell why a trout refuses a fly during a rise, but when we mud the tippet to get rid of the sheen and sink the tippet, the catch rate goes up. So the conclusion is that the floating leader is what put the fish off.

    Take a look at the photo below of 3 identical tippets treated in 3 different ways. It is taken from a book on fly fishing. Tippets are extruded and this coats the tippet in a shiny slightly oily lubricant. Degreasing with a compound containing bentonite clay, glycerin, and detergent removes the sheen and coating and sinks the tippet. Snake River Mud is a degreaser and sinkant.



    The tippet on the left that has been wiped clean, the middle one degreased and the right one treated with a floatant. If seeing is believing, which tippet is most easily seen? This is why I never put floatant on the tippet closest to the fly.



    The photo above shows direct visualization of the tippet. What it does not show is the effect of refraction on the bottom of the stream. When refracted light hits the stream bottom, bright flickers of light are cast on the stream bottom (see photo below). This can spook trout that are heavily fished over in clear slow moving water. Obviously it is not spooking this trout.



    Like many strategies in fishing degreasing, is NOT a yes or no proposition. In some situations, it may make little difference but in some situations it is makes a huge difference in determining success or failure.
    Regards,

    Silver



    "Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

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  3. #12

    Default Re: Fly Size Guide, or: What Size Fly Is This?

    Keep it Simple as they say...as a new guy it seems to me that old school experts tend to make this sport SOOOO complicated vs easy for a new person, which inclines one to at first moving on from the sport and just sticking to traditional fishing with other methods. I personally liked your guide. Is a fish really going to know??? Or just bite the damn fly because he's hungry??..I doubt the fish looks at a fly and says, "I wonder what tippet length, shank length, gap and fly size he's using, I better not bite his presentation today" .....OMG

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  5. #13

    Default Re: Fly Size Guide, or: What Size Fly Is This?

    I say, don't overthink it. You can get by, for the most part, with 4x, 5x and 6x. Start with a 4x tapered leader. 4x tippet for your bigger flies, 6x for your smallest, but usually 5x will work for anything down to a #18 or #20. If you find you can't turn over the wooly buggers and muddlers, go 3x. I personally never go smaller than 6x. This will get you fishing, and will work well enough to allow you to catch fish. You can get as technical as you want, but your experience will teach you the subtleties.

    It is best to drop a line size from your leader to tippet, but being new, I think you will find your leader shortening and getting thicker as it does.

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  7. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Cody, WY
    Posts
    580

    Default Re: Fly Size Guide, or: What Size Fly Is This?

    Quote Originally Posted by silver creek View Post
    The key is he is fishing a LAKE where he does not have to counter drag. I bet he would not use 3X tippet fishing a size 16 fly to rising trout on a river.

    In moving water it is DRAG that is the killer over 90% of the time.

    Some spooky trout can spook at seeing the impression of the leader on the water surface. We can never actually tell why a trout refuses a fly during a rise, but when we mud the tippet to get rid of the sheen and sink the tippet, the catch rate goes up. So the conclusion is that the floating leader is what put the fish off.

    Take a look at the photo below of 3 identical tippets treated in 3 different ways. It is taken from a book on fly fishing. Tippets are extruded and this coats the tippet in a shiny slightly oily lubricant. Degreasing with a compound containing bentonite clay, glycerin, and detergent removes the sheen and coating and sinks the tippet. Snake River Mud is a degreaser and sinkant.



    The tippet on the left that has been wiped clean, the middle one degreased and the right one treated with a floatant. If seeing is believing, which tippet is most easily seen? This is why I never put floatant on the tippet closest to the fly.



    The photo above shows direct visualization of the tippet. What it does not show is the effect of refraction on the bottom of the stream. When refracted light hits the stream bottom, bright flickers of light are cast on the stream bottom (see photo below). This can spook trout that are heavily fished over in clear slow moving water. Obviously it is not spooking this trout.



    Like many strategies in fishing degreasing, is NOT a yes or no proposition. In some situations, it may make little difference but in some situations it is makes a huge difference in determining success or failure.
    Yessir, he was talking only that specific lake and those specific trout. It's kind of an extraordinary lake that requires a clever game plan for the day unless you want to get skunked like I did and a couple others apparently did yesterday.

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  9. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    D'Iberville Ms
    Posts
    906

    Default Re: Fly Size Guide, or: What Size Fly Is This?

    [QUOTE=Abaco24;1439795I doubt the fish looks at a fly and says, "I wonder what tippet length, shank length, gap and fly size he's using, I better not bite his presentation today" .....OMG[/QUOTE]

    Maybe, but I have seen where changing from a sz 18 to a sz 20 BWO fly meant the difference between catching and not catching. I have seen the same by changing from 5X to 6X tippet.

    And saminich if you are trying to replicate a fly you bought at the vise remember that there is some variation among hook brands. I just compared a Gamakatsu hook to a similar Mustad and the Gammy hook in sz 6 was the same size as the Mustad in sz 4

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