Castwell's knot - Old flyline to leader knot

[turbineblade]

Anyone else ever seen this knot? Fly Angler's OnLine "Fly Fishing the Salt - 18 - Wading"

I found it one day a couple of months ago immediately after I nail knotted a piece of 30# mono to my fly line to use for loop-loop connection. When checking the strength of the knot, the darned thing came off and effectively stripped my fly line to the core! Anyway I know that a LOT of people use nail knots without problems....they're just not my cup of tea. Plus, I don't enjoy tying them -- even with the quick tie tool.

I've been using this castwell knot (actually a "lap knot", or 1/2 sheet bend, or whatever else you call it) for a while now on my rods (and my wife's) and after a lot of fish (bass, rainbows, a catfish, and a nile tilapia), and more importantly -- some really nasty bottom hang-ups -- I'm impressed with it! I've not had one slip, break, anything as far as I can tell. It takes literally 6 seconds to tie and is no more bulky than a nail knot using 30# test.

I'm sure everyone has a go-to knot for this purpose, and that's fine. Whatever works for you. I just have never seen or heard this one mentioned by anyone out there and thought I'd put this out there in case anyone has had my experience with the other knots either being overly difficult to tie or not holding well .

TB

 

[Rip Tide]

That's the knot that I was taught to use when I was kid.
Push it backwards and it falls apart. It didn't work for me then and I wouldn't trust it now.
Castwell convinced a lot of people to use it, but not me.

 

[turbineblade]

Really? I honestly do believe you guys and definitely don't want to lose a potentially good fish due to knots.

The problem I'm having is this:

The last nail knot I tied to a piece of fly line stripped the coating on the line when I tested it just like I do any knot that I tie and led to my obvious conclusion - "To heck with this, I'm going to find something else!"

Albright knots are a real pain to tie using fly line IME -- it's not bad with mono>braid, but when fly line is thrown in there it wants to "bunch and/or twist" making the coils hard to tighten down properly.

Uni knot (false nail knot) is a pain for similar reasons

Needle knot looks to me like performing surgery on a mouse and again, I don't trust nail knots -- at least not ones that I've tied

The pre-tied loop in my SA fly line appeared to get "bitten" easily and I didn't trust it to hold, so I cut it off and did the castwell.

There has to be a better way Maybe I'll got for the full sheetbend and just not plan to ever let it pass through the rod guides when fighting a fish

---------- Post added at 02:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:27 PM ----------

Push it backwards and it falls apart. It didn't work for me then and I wouldn't trust it now.

I understand you. That said, I've tied this several times and can never get the sucker to back-off and untie....even when I wanted to do just that. Basically I've tied it just like the link and really pulled it quite tightly. I'd have to cut it off to remove it!

I wish I had a machine to test it like knot wars, but I swear to you that I cannot get the thing to break, no matter how hard I pull the two materials apart from each other.

I'm willing to try other options though -- so this is good

 

[Hombre06]

I've used this knot and it worked for an entire season. Never lost a leader. You need to ensure the knot is tight before you start casting otherwise you'll lose your setup. Here's a picture of my version.

 

[chuck s]

Have you considered that the slipping of the coating from the core was a fluke? I've never encountered this and for years used the nail or similar knots. Now use the Needle Knot a lot more. The knot which isn't a knot that I use a lot these days is the leader inserted into the core. Roughed up with a drop of super glue, insert into the core using a needle. Smooth slick and works fine!

 

[Guest1]

The knot innes showed is a sheet bend. That castwell knot is a bit different. They don't have enough wraps to make me feel comfortable but I use a sheet bend all the time tying things down. I guess it's a good knot. If it works why Knot?

 

[Hombre06]

Yeah, I used this knot but a loop to loop connection just makes line management easier.

 

[fredaevans]

As DD notes, the knot is a sheet bend. Been around for a thousand years.

Google Image Result for http://outsideperception.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/knots2.jpg

 

[Rip Tide]

Have you considered that the slipping of the coating from the core was a fluke? I've never encountered this and for years used the nail or similar knots.

That actually happen to me once while striper fishing at night. A nice fish pulled the leader right off.
My flashlight was nearly dead, so the only way I could think of to keep fishing was to strip off more of the line coating and tie a perfection loop in the core. It worked so well that I left it that way for the rest of the season

 

[turbineblade]

That actually happen to me once while striper fishing at night. A nice fish pulled the leader right off.
My flashlight was nearly dead, so the only way I could think of to keep fishing was to strip off more of the line coating and tie a perfection loop in the core. It worked so well that I left it that way for the rest of the season

Hey Rip -- I definitely respect your opinion and you've responded to like 90% of my stupid questions with helpful information .

Would you recommend actually stripping the fly line coating and doing this intentionally? I prefer the loop to loop connecdtion and that sounds like it would work....

 

[Rip Tide]

Would you recommend actually stripping the fly line coating and doing this intentionally? I prefer the loop to loop connecdtion and that sounds like it would work....

No I wouldn't recommend it. What I did was on an intermediate line so I wasn't concerned about the tip sinking. If you did that with a floating line, the line core would tend to absorb water and sink.

 

[sweetandsalt]

The key to nail knot integrity is similar to the earlier thread on blood knots; multiple turns are a must. Of course none can overlap and all must be carefully seated. using a small diameter tube such as a midge bobin permits you to wrap as many as 12 and even more turns which distributes the grip of the mono over a longer area of fly line tip. This will not strip the coating off but compress it to its core. The Albright is even stronger though bulkier. I don't consider it "cheating" but once a nail knot is properly executed and your are convinced of its integrity, you can bleed a droplet of Zap-A-Gap onto it over lapping ever so slightly onto the line. No slippage or breakege can occure following this application.

 

[brucerducer]

Respectfully, I understand that it is a simple enough not to understand, and it is a quick tie; but it requires a LOOP in the fly line, and I have never used LOOPS in my line. I like a plain end.

Also, I find the Nail Knot so easy to tie on a Plain end. It might take me half a minute to tie, but how often do you have to change the leader?

I pick up a box of SIP-STIRS, from the grocery store. Those are the little stir sticks for coffees, that are Black or White, and are hollow like a straw.

A piece of that cut to about 1" to 1-1/2" make tying the Nail Knot a very easy method. Once you make the 7 or 8 wraps with the leader, around the fly line, it is so easy to shove the leader butt back up through the Sip-Stir and then pull leader end tight. The fingers hold the wraps, while my teeth and hands pull the leader tight (teeth on the leader butt) and the Straw is pulled away.

But, to each his own. To those who use the leader Loop, the the Castwell might be fine.

.

 

[Flyfisher for men]

I use castwell's knot all the time. Works like a charm.

 

[flymark]

I have been using the Castwell Knot (which really is more of a bight than a knot) for about fourteen years or so now. I have never had one come undone, never lost a leader or had that connection break.

Loop to loop is quicker, but the Castwell has worked great for me - and once a factory welded loop fails - I tend to go with these. I've tried just about everything - nail knots, needle knots, loop to loop welds, whipped loops (folding the line back, and tying the ends with fly tying thread or rod wrapping thread + epoxy) albright knots, and the castwell - and the castwell knot is what I go back to.

Like all other knots - you can increase it's strength with a dap of cement/super glue/epoxy.

 

[turbineblade]

My castwell is a loop to loop connection.

It seems to me like there really isn't a great way to connect those two, totally different lines (fly line to leader) and no matter what you choose it's basically a compromise.

I've caught enough fish (including 2 fish that ripped out all my fly line) on the castwell knot now that I tend to trust it, vs. the nail knot that I've broken just by testing the knot.

I could see the nail knot tied to a doubled-over fly line being secure, but I refuse to use a nail knot placed at the end of the fly line anymore -- I don't trust it.

---------- Post added at 06:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:59 AM ----------

and once a factory welded loop fails - I tend to go with these

Yeah, I don't trust these either. My SA headstart fly line came with one and I thought it would be great, but after light use I noticed how badly notched it became and just couldn't use it anymore. I cut it off and made a castwell on the end instead.

This is nothing against the headstart fly line -- I love that fly line and plan to buy nothing else in the future unless I line my lighter rod with a DT line. I don't see how a person could spend that same money and get something better than the headstart.

 

[speycracker]

There is a knot in Joan Wulff's book that is similar to the Castwell. The tag end of the fly line goes back through the leader loop and has an overhand knot tied in the very end of it for extra security.
The only connection I really trust is to double the end of the fly line and tie a single surgeons loop. Then connect loop to loop with the leader butt. The surgeons loop knot is bulky and could be a problem if the leader is longer than the rod, as it may hang up on the guides.

 

[turbineblade]

The only connection I really trust is to double the end of the fly line and tie a single surgeons loop.

I've actually strongly considered doing this -- especially since I don't see any real need to wind up my fly line into the rod tip when landing a fish. I'm actually hyper-aware of this when fighting a fish.

 

[brucerducer]

.

While we are discussing Knots, I wanted to mention that I am going to start tying the Uni-Knot (known also as the "Duncan Knot") so that I can start running Tandem Rigs, with the Dry Fly for an Indicator and a nymph running lower, etc.

If anyone has an particular advice, let me know. I've been using the Improved Clinch, but I read something about it being hard on the Fluorocarbon.
(Heat by Friction stress, or something?)

Anyway, in all honesty, the Duncan / Uni-Knot doesn't look "easy" to tie.
It has five loops and it looks like they would all get jumbled up.

Any advice would be most appreciated. If there is a trick or shortcut to it, let me know.

:wiggle:

 

[turbineblade]

While we are discussing Knots, I wanted to mention that I am going to start tying the Uni-Knot (known also as the "Duncan Knot") so that I can start running Tandem Rigs, with the Dry Fly for an Indicator and a nymph running lower, etc.

I love the uni-knot personally. I use it more than any other knot actually. The only other ones I use are the triple surgeons knot and the orvis knot occasionally.

I also moved from the improved clinch to the uni, mostly because I noticed that I would occasionally lose fish from tying the improved clinch to large hooks (causing breakage). That said, my wife ONLY ties the improved clinch and never has problems with it. A lot of other people swear by it too...so to each their own. I no longer use it.

Not that it is scientific, but I've done several of my own "pull tests" and my uni knot always beats the clinch....and I've never had it fail me on a fish. Even looking at it, it seems to me like the formation of the uni would be more secure than the clinch simply because of how the tag end is secured...but I don't know.

The uni-knot was always easy for me -- just youtube it. I mostly use 8 pound test for tippet, so I usually get away with 4-5 turns...depending on what I feel like . Just make sure to tighten the tag end first to form the knot on the standing line, then don't just pull the main line to slide the knot downward -- that's the bad way to do it. Instead, grasp the knot and slide it manually with your fingers or fingernail. You can slide it down about 98% of the way to the hook eye and use it as a loop knot...which is mostly what I do. You avoid burn this way, plus I add some saliva first just to make sure.

You can join lines by using 2 uni knots, you can snell a hook, attach line to the reel, etc. - it's a very versatile knot and beats the tar out of the improved clinch in my experience . I also use it with fluorocarbon 8 pound Vanish and it hasn't failed me. I don't use braid, but I've read that the uni is considered a good choice for it as well. Maybe I just tie it better...who knows? All I know is that I trust it after using it so often now.

Try it out!

---------- Post added at 08:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:09 AM ----------

Oh! And if you do not need a loop knot, you can simply pass the line through the hook eye 2 times and tie the uni-knot to make the "Fish-N-Fool" knot...which is one of the strongest knots you can tie - period.