Loop to Loop connection Leader or nail knot

[mjsurfing]

My mate who is teaching me to fly fish has tied my leader on with a nail knot as he said they turn over the leader better.

I see and have read about braided loop to loop leader joiners. The question I have is are they Ok to use and do they turn over the fly and leader OK.

 

[pszy22]

Both work fine. What I actually like to use is a nail knot to attach a short length of mono (6") to my fly line, then use a loop to loop to attach my leader to the mono. The mono more or less stays permanently attached to the fly line.

There is a right and wrong way to connect loops, do it the wrong way and you can have problems with hinging -

 

[mjsurfing]

What knot do you use for the loop?

 

[winstonwt]

I don't,i cut the loops off.

 

[pszy22]

What knot do you use for the loop?

Perfection loop

I tie several hundred of these loops every year, have yet to have one fail.

 

[lanyard]

Those illustrations are great, but I have to say that it would be much easier to grasp if the lines were not the same color in the loop-loop connection.

 

[turbineblade]

I've never understood the idea that a certain line>leader connection "turns the leader over better". It makes no sense to me, and I doubt any difference is due to anything more than the difference between the fly line and leader butt diameter/stiffness. Until you cast 200' and win competitions, I think most people should be talking about casting over the line>leader connection as far as turn over is concerned.

I use loop-to-loop connections with either welded or whipped loops, because nail knots don't slide through the guides any better than a loop IME and because nail knots are without question, much weaker in breaking strength than a nail-knot loop, or whipped loop, or welded loop. On certain fly lines you can easily demonstrate this by pulling very hard and ripping the knot right off the end of the fly line. I've done it many times, but have NEVER managed to do the same with a loop.

That said, a nail knot even at 50% or so breaking strength of the leader butt, if tied with 30 or 40 pound test (or whatever) is still generally stronger than the tippet...and thus will work fine.

 

[wabi]

I much prefer a fly line with a welded loop at the end, and a loop to loop connection for the leader. It doesn't hang up in the guides nearly as bad as a nail knot.
I use the perfection loop and don't remember one ever failing.

 

[Unknownflyman]

I used to be a knot only guy because I did see the loop to loop hinge on the cast.

I later realized that I should have had built stiffer more tapered leaders or bought maybe a 4 or 3x for the flies I was using.

Now all I use is loop to loop and because I'm more educated thanks to the forum about line, leader and flies and how it works together.

Changing out leaders, heads, sink tips has never been easier to quickly match conditions, Or fish different flies.

 

[nevadanstig]

I tied a perfection loop right into the end of my fly line, then just buy the rio mono leaders with the loops already in them and do a loop to loop. I started with nail knots but find them difficult and time consuming to tie, and with how often I get "wind" knots I like the loop to loop for the speed and ease if I need to tie on a new rig on the water.

 

[JoJer]

Perfection loop

I tie several hundred of these loops every year, have yet to have one fail.

>>>>>>>>+1. Once it's tied, it stays that way. I should hope it would be the last to fail.

On my four weight, the mono to perfection loop is 12# or 20#. On the eight weight, it's 30#.
If I could manage a knot in that stuff, I'd have a section of the 400# mono I string my decoys on. Just because it's neat.

 

[paul54]

Perfection loop

I tie several hundred of these loops every year, have yet to have one fail.

I agree with pszy22. I've tied my own leader for years and use the perfection loop...never had one fail. It's my "go to" loop knot for most everything.

 

[Unknownflyman]

I was tying leaders for fishing last night, for streamers, big ones for muskie, pike and bass.

30-20- and 12lb for bass, 20 for pike, muskie using maxima and perfection loops, I wanted to share a you tube video which shows how easy it is but not having any luck.

Custom leaders are where it's at, especially for big game! Heres the link can't embed for some reason.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?sns=fb&v=pbcl062p5p0

 

[GrtLksMarlin]

I've never used nail knots always loops and when line came only with straight ends I whipped them over until I started using braided slip on loops (like from Cortland)....They always worked great.

B.E.F.

 

[flats]

Tapered leader to fly line with a nail knot, after tippet is wore down from changing flies, tie a perfection loop at end of leader (3 to 4 feet) attach fresh tippet with a perfection loop (loop to loop). This method is fast when changing from nymphs to drys or visa versa.

 

[dean_mt]

If the fly line has a welded loop I use that till eventually the leader loop cuts into the line. Then I agree with all the guys that nail knot a short, stiff section of mono (I like Maxima) to the fly line with a perfection loop on the end then loop to loop to the leader.

 

[tpo]

My personal assessment of the various methods I've used:

Pre-manufactured nylon loop attachment to fly line: works OK generally, I'd say its a pretty good solution for most if your line doesn't have a integral loop with it. I have had one fail, came right off the end of my line while casting. Probably didn't have it attached well. By the way, I discovered the Perfection loop this past year after 30+ years of fishing and its a GREAT knot for making loop to loop leaders.

My Own Tied Loop, using thread and whip finish and/or several mono nail knots: don't like them, I found the loop would not pass through the rod guides. I'm sure I'm not very good at these, those better at this can probably do a good job.

Nail Knot: easy to tie with a tool, works great, I've had no problems. It does hang up in the rod guides so I don't think its the best for long leaders where you will have to bring that knot within the guides.

Needle Nail Knot: a better version of the nail knot but its more of a hassle to tie and makes changing leaders more difficult. However, its a very small/ very smooth connection and it will not hang up in the rod guide.

So as you'd expect, each have their pro's /con's. I have a lot of lines and have used/ continue to use each of them over the years. Good luck.

Tom

 

[el jefe]

I tied a perfection loop right into the end of my fly line, then just buy the rio mono leaders with the loops already in them and do a loop to loop. I started with nail knots but find them difficult and time consuming to tie, and with how often I get "wind" knots I like the loop to loop for the speed and ease if I need to tie on a new rig on the water.

I'd never considered doing this, and have a few questions. How bulky does the perfection loop get in the fly line? How heavy a fly line have you done this with? Is there a difference with a DT vs. a WF line? The knot should get bulkier as you go up in line sizes and may vary a little bit by taper, but I wonder if it would work for all trout-sized line weights. Thanks.

 

[mtbusman]

I cut loops off my fly lines and use nail knots at both ends. I used to use pliobond over the knots until I learn about Knot Sense. Knot Sense is easy to work with and cures with sunlight. You can get a slim profile that easily slides through the guides. No hang ups, no problem. It's slimmer than a loop connection, and I think it reduces the possibility of hinging.

I have a ten inch connector of maxima coming off the fly line, and I blood knot my leaders to this. Works great.

However, I don't change leaders often. On some of my leaders, I'm now using tippet rings so its easy to change tippet without affecting the rest of the leader. For my longer dry fly leaders, no tippet rings -- I repair them with new sections when necessary.

I suppose if you are buying knotless leaders, and change them frequently, you might need to use a perfection loop at the end of the mono connector to the fly line.

Another way is to use the the unibody leader system -- here is a link to Jason Borger's website if you would like more information: http://fishfliesandwater.com/gear-rigging/some-leaders-for-trout/

And, here is a link to Gary Borger's nailess nail knot: Gary Borger » Nailless Nail Knot

Sounds like many are having a good experience using loops to connect their leaders to the fly line -- but the connection just seems too bulky to me.

 

[nevadanstig]

I'd never considered doing this, and have a few questions. How bulky does the perfection loop get in the fly line? How heavy a fly line have you done this with? Is there a difference with a DT vs. a WF line? The knot should get bulkier as you go up in line sizes and may vary a little bit by taper, but I wonder if it would work for all trout-sized line weights. Thanks.

Its not too terribly bulky, but it does tend to hang in the guides a bit. I have no problems fishing dries with it like this. I only have one set up, which is a 9' 5wt with 5wtfwf line. It would be much cleaner to do if your fly line had a loop to begin with, but mine did not.

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