braided backing to flyline, which knot?

[marcelnl]

I read somewhere while looking up a picture of the actual knot itself that the usual knot should rather not be used in case a braided hollow backing is used, but I did not find any reference to an alternative knot in that case....

being afraid to mess things up as a newbie I was wondering if any of you would have a tip or could confirm that the usual knot is OK to use or that I should follow a tip I read using silicon tube to connect the two (I guess a drop of glue would not hurt ?

I got myself some Cortland braided backing and an airflo forty plus extreme distance ridge floating and intermediate line for both spools.

I could also do with some advice on the method to use to connect a braided leader to the fly line, as the loop to loop seems bulky yet convenient to me while at the same time a gut feeling tells me that the braid sleeve might allow for a smoother connection.

 

[shorthaul]

Hi marcelnl

i use loops everywhere---I use power pro for backing and tie a large bimini twist (100% knot strength)---tie it big enough to pass your reel through and you can change your line in minutes---if the line doesnt have a loop, ill make one and wrap it with 6/0 tying thread then coat it with varnish or knot sense---a perfection loop at both ends of the leader makes all the connections easily changed---tie tippet with a modified uni knot and a clinch knot on the fly assures that you wont lose the tippet if you break off your fly

theres a bunch of ways to accomplish it---it just how i do it

have fun
mike

 

[Frank Whiton]

Hi marcelnl,

I was going to take a swag at your questions but I think I need a little more information.

1. Is the Cortland Braided backing one of the super braids made with Spectra?

2. What are your target fish?

3. Do you have two spools for the reel?

4. What size fly line are we talking about?

5. You are talking about a braided leader and not a furled leader?

6. Does the Ridge fly line have loops on both ends?

Frank

 

[marcelnl]

hi Frank, appreciate your effort!

1 I bought the Cortland large Arbour micro backing, other than that he spool tells me it was made in the US AND the EU I have no clue to its origin.

2 well anything that swims:icon_mrgr but for now most likely mainly some perch and for later this summer hopefully some Swedish trout and whatever else of interest that may come across my flies in the Klaralven River(which is said to carry 36 species of fish).

3 yup, got an extra spool with the reel I could not afford not to buy.

4 both are #6 WF

5 the package reads Airflo braided leader, yet I would probably not be able to tell the difference between a braid and a furl from the look of it.

6 the Ridge line does not have loops on either end, yet it came with a complimentary chinese finger braided loop I could use.

 

[plland]

I read somewhere while looking up a picture of the actual knot itself that the usual knot should rather not be used in case a braided hollow backing is used, but I did not find any reference to an alternative knot in that case....

being afraid to mess things up as a newbie I was wondering if any of you would have a tip or could confirm that the usual knot is OK to use or that I should follow a tip I read using silicon tube to connect the two (I guess a drop of glue would not hurt ?

I got myself some Cortland braided backing and an airflo forty plus extreme distance ridge floating and intermediate line for both spools.

I could also do with some advice on the method to use to connect a braided leader to the fly line, as the loop to loop seems bulky yet convenient to me while at the same time a gut feeling tells me that the braid sleeve might allow for a smoother connection.

Don't worry about messing things up by tying the wrong knot. You can always re-do it later. I've always tied my backing to my flyline with an Albright knot. I thought all backing was braided... do you mean that you've used mono backing before?

For a braided or furled leader with a loop on each end, loop to loop is the easiest way for me, but yes the connection is annoyingly bulky, even when your fly line has a welded loop at its end. An alternative would be to get a short (<12") length of relatively thick mono, the thickness you'd find at the butt end of a tapered mono leader, and tie one end to the fly line with a nail knot and the other end to your braided leader with the same knot you use to tie your flies on with.

 

[aroostookbasser]

Improved clinch knot.......

 

[marcelnl]

the improved clinch knot for a loopless line and ditto backing ??
for a hook I'd say OK......but for line to line I am not sure as two of those seem quite bulky to me.

the earlier reply stating the allbright sounds more in line with my expectation, but I am open to tips as I admittedly am a bit of a perfectionist .....I was thrown off by a statement not to use the allbright for hollow braided backing on some website. (I never used backing before as I only had the flyline on my previous reel , used mainly to get the casting technique down I thought I was not going to be in a great need for backing soon ;-) )

 

[Frank Whiton]

Hi marcelnl,

I am a little confused by which backing you have Cortland makes a Micron backing and a Micronite Super Braid Fly Line Backing. I am going to assume that it is the Micronite Super Braid. With the super braid lines you get two items you have to deal with. The line is smaller in diameter and is more slick. The slickness of the super braids makes your knots more important. Sometimes knots that work with mono don't work as well on super braid.

How to fasten backing to the fly line

A very good way to tie backing to the fly line is with an Albright Knot. Here is a link that shows how to tie an Albright Knot. Use the 10 to 12 wraps and you won't have to worry about the Albright slipping with super braid. The Albright Knot should be finished with a lock but the tutorial doesn't show one. I usually don't use the Albright unless I am tying to a loop.

You can also use a Nail Knot and I like this option. Here is a link on how to tie a Nail Knot. If you have super braid I would use more wraps than what is shown. I would use eight wraps or so. Or, you can tie a normal Nail Knot and apply Pliobond or Goop. The Pilobond is probably a good idea either way.

A third option to fasten the backing to the fly line is to form a loop on the end of the fly line. The running line on a fly line is not very big and you can double over the fly line to form a loop of any size. You have to serve (wrap the doubled over line with thread) and apply Pliobond or Goop. Once you have a loop on the fly line you can use an Albright or fasten loop to loop. A Bimini Twist is a very good knot to tie in the backing. Here is a link on how to tie a Bimini Twist. The Bimini Twist is used mostly for saltwater but it is useful for lines 6wt and above. It is a bit of overkill on a 6wt line.

How to fasten a braided leader to the fly line

You apparently don't have the newest Ridge line. I think the new ones have loops on both ends. This would simplify your problems.

The best method I think is to tie on a short section of 20lb to 25lb mono on the end of the fly line using a nail knot. Then tie a loop in the end. I have always used a Perfection Loop but I think a better knot is the Non-slip mono knot. Use 4 wraps with the 15 to 20 pound mono. Here is a link on how to tie the Non-Slip Mono knot.

You can also form a loop like we did on the backing end of the fly line. You might find this too bulky.

If you want to try the braided loop that came with the fly line, here is how to do that. You need to feed the loop onto the fly line end. Some of the braided material may be frayed and you can trim that up. You need to serve the braid and some of the fly line to have a smooth transition. You need about 1/8 on the fly line and 1/4 to 3/8 on the braid. Cover the thread with Pliobond or Goop. I like Pliobond as it doesn't get as hard as Zap-A-Gap or other types of super glues.

Here is a second way to attached the braided loop. Thread the braid onto the fly line like before. Instead of serving the braid to the fly line, tie a Nail Knot at the junction on top of the braid. Pull it as tight as you can get it and trim off the ends. Cover the Nail Knot with Pliobond and you are good to go. If you want a really neat Nail Knot use some of your braided backing to tie the knot.

Frank

 

[marcelnl]

Thanks Frank, that was an elaborate answer !

I am also not sure which of the two types of backing I got, but with your info I should manage pretty well with either of the two.... Always nice to have first hand info from someone with long standing experience.

Nail knots t'is then ;-)
I kind of liked them already as they seem to provide a nice straight connection, although I must admit that I'll have to study the instructions to connect the leader to a bit more....perhaps it'd help if I did that before having a nice grappa as digestive ;-)

For now I'll throw on the braided loop as described, as I thought that worked well enough so far for me. Unless the turn over is that much better with the (probably) more elaborate solution (to which I will probably get around at some point anyway).

I already have some knot glue, as I managed to loose some flies throwing the line (frayed end on the leader, either due to still slightly untidy knots or just bad luck.) but I am not sure how flexible that stuff is relative to pliobond (rubber enforced TF Gear Rig glue) so I'll pick up some pliobond at the first opportunity, as there hardly will be an objective flexibility scale for flygear glue.:wink:

 

[cb3fish]

Sir,

If you have braid (spectra) the strongest knot you can tie in braid is the triple surgeons (6) times through not the Bimini twist. The Bimini is the best knot if it's Mono. I take about 4 feet of the braid and tie the triple surgeons knot and end up with a a big loop then double over that loop and go through the loop 3 times. Now you will have the strongest knot in braid without using any glue and you will also end up with with about a 1 foot loop with double lines that won't cut into the factory loop on your fly line. I use loops on both ends of everything, However I do fish Blue water for big nasty fish...my 2 cents-CB

 

[flytie09]

This is an 11 yr old thread. :roll:

Good tip though. Is there a name for this knot or link to tying it in action on YouTube?

I too like loop to looping if using braid or gel...... and like a double loop. I’d been using a 12 turn double bimini..... not so easy with braid. If there’s an easier mouse trap.... I’m open to trying it.

 

[fffl]

for trout fishing with no loop at the back end of the fly line a well tied nail not works great. a better option with 5wt. lines or larger is the needle not. not only is the needle not very strong but also very smooth . however you can only tie the needle not to a fly line with a braided core. hope that helps you.

 

[dennyk]

Thankfully all my fly lines have loops on both ends. With my braided backing the only connection I use is loop to loop. When I get the knot tightened down on the braid I'll work in a couple drops of Zap-A-Gap to seal it up and let it dry for an hour before spooling it up.

**I also double up the loops on the braid to provide some padding for the fly line loop coating.

Denny

 

[dillon]

Sweetandsalt and I use Orvis braided butt leaders. The connection to the flyline method we use is as follows:

1. Cut off the loops of the flyline and braided butt. Be sure to cut the fly line end on an angle.
2. Insert the end of the fly line into the hollow core of the braided but a bit over an inch.
3. Gently pull on both lines. The braided butt should tighten on the fly line, like a Chinese handcuff.
4. Coat the connection sparingly with Zap a Gap Glue glue.
5. Hang it to dry and cure before use.
6. Trim any loose ends of the end of the braided butt where it attaches to the leader.

This connection is very smooth and creates a perfect transition of power from flyline to leader, if done correctly. It has never failed. S&S has written extensively on his leader building method using the Orvis braided butt on this forum.

We have used this method for a long time. When I purchased my first looped end fly line I tried connecting the looped end of a braided butt to it. This worked fine and was not too bulky. I still prefer the above method but sometimes will use the loops. Especially, if it's on a multi purpose line, that I will sometimes use a straight tapered nylon leader.

 

[flytie09]

I’m using braid or gel spun for Salmonids. Nail knotting braid to thin running line I’m afraid would strip that coating off on a nice fish playing tug-o-war.

Is a modified Albright ok or is the 6 turn surgeons loop the ticket? Or the Alberto knot?

 

[jr spey]

This is an 11 yr old thread. :roll:

Good tip though. Is there a name for this knot or link to tying it in action on YouTube?

I too like loop to looping if using braid or gel...... and like a double loop. I’d been using a 12 turn double bimini..... not so easy with braid. If there’s an easier mouse trap.... I’m open to trying it.

Go back to cb3's post and you have an easier (and better) mousetrap.

 

[flytie09]

That’s what I was referencing. I was just looking for a YouTube vid of this knot. I know the surgeons loop..... but when you talk of doubling it over and doing it again. I’m lost.

 

[cb3fish]

Thankfully all my fly lines have loops on both ends. With my braided backing the only connection I use is loop to loop. When I get the knot tightened down on the braid I'll work in a couple drops of Zap-A-Gap to seal it up and let it dry for an hour before spooling it up.

**I also double up the loops on the braid to provide some padding for the fly line loop coating.

Denny

Denny,

Doubling up the loop is a good ideal, however if your just trout fishing using braid against the soft coating of a fly line will be OK, but if your salt water fishing get rid of the factory loop on the end of the fly line and go with the braided loop.my 2 cents-CB

 

[dennyk]

Denny,

Doubling up the loop is a good ideal, however if your just trout fishing using braid against the soft coating of a fly line will be OK, but if your salt water fishing get rid of the factory loop on the end of the fly line and go with the braided loop.my 2 cents-CB

Thanks for the tip CB. Salt water fishing is on my bucket list. The freshwater fish that sometimes, but not really that often take me into the backing are Salmon, Steelhead and Carp. So far so good!

Denny

 

[cb3fish]

fly tie,

Let me help you out here with this knot. first take about A -4 foot peice of braid double it back on it's self and tie a overhand knot and go through this loop 6 times, this is called a triple surgeons loop, Now you have a big loop about 2 foot long, now double that loop back on it's self make that same over hand knot and go through it 3 times, you should end up with a loop about a foot long with double lines-the double lines keep the line from cutting through the braided loop cause it gives the line more bearing surface, another tip is never use braid with the factory loops, cause they will dig into the loop, Will it break the loop?, I am sure but it sure looks ugly after a few fish-If your trout fishing just take all this advice and throw it out the window-LOL-CB