Blood knots vs double surgeon's knots

[mjkirshner]

I have always used double surgeon's knots for tying leaders, but I just read an article about a well-known guide in the Bahamas who ties his with blood knots. So I gave it a try. I haven't tried to cast it yet, but the knots are so much smaller and make the leader look so clean. Does anyone know of any reason not to use the blood knot instead of the double surgeon's? The only answer that comes to my mind is that the surgeon's is easier to tie reliably under less-than-ideal conditions. But assuming that I am tying leaders at home, in decent lighting, is there any reason I should not use the blood knot?

 

[ratchet]

Since the guide is in the Bahamas, I should be able to safely assume you are thinking of fishing the flats for bonefish etc. The short answer is "no", I also feel that the blood knot works well in this situation. The doubled surgeon knot works best in thinner lines as you would normally use while dry fly fishing. But your mileage may vary. Knot strength is so dependent on your familiarity tying a particular knot, the line diameter and brand, so use the knot that you have confidence in.

One problem I had tying with stiff lines like Mason hard line is that the blood knot does not always tighten up properly. I've found that the a water soluble lubricant like food-grade silicon oil works well and in the thicker sections of my tapered leader, I reduce the number of turns. 3 turns with the thicker line, 4 turns on the thinner.

Good fishing.

 

[el jefe]

Nope. I even use the blood knot on the water. I find that often the loops in the surgeon's knot are hard to cinch down simultaneously, which later leads to knot failures. I have experienced only one knot failure with a blood knot, which was tied hastily in 25* temperatures, and did not cinch down properly. I knew it was going to fail, I just didn't know when. Got a lot of use out of it, actually, at least a few hours worth. My digits were just too cold to tie another knot when I tied it, and I sort of forgot about it after that, 'til it parted.

 

[karstopo]

I never liked the kink and big lumpy look of the double surgeon's knot. So, I went to the blood knot very early in my leader building. I've tied so many now that it's second nature. It is a little risky if the two sections are widely different in diameter. I've been known to put a little tiny dab of UV cure on them for added insurance.

Which Knot: Blood Knot or Surgeon's? | MidCurrent

 

[mcnerney]

Here is a great trick to help with tying Blood Knots, makes it much quicker (if you have a toothpick handy).

YouTube

 

[el jefe]

Here is a great trick to help with tying Blood Knots, makes it much quicker (if you have a toothpick handy).

YouTube

In the wild, a pine needle, a blade of grass, or a small stick will also work.

 

[spm]

That's pretty slick, Larry. Even I might be able to tie a blood knot that way.

Thanks,
steve

 

[scotty macfly]

Since I live in Colo., and dry fly, I tie mine with the triple surgeons knot. I have no complaints at all so I never have used a blood knot.

 

[karstopo]

I have always used double surgeon's knots for tying leaders, but I just read an article about a well-known guide in the Bahamas who ties his with blood knots. So I gave it a try. I haven't tried to cast it yet, but the knots are so much smaller and make the leader look so clean. Does anyone know of any reason not to use the blood knot instead of the double surgeon's? The only answer that comes to my mind is that the surgeon's is easier to tie reliably under less-than-ideal conditions. But assuming that I am tying leaders at home, in decent lighting, is there any reason I should not use the blood knot?

Since you mentioned the Bahamas, If you are fishing over submerged grass, trim the tag ends of the blood knot real close and put a tiny dab of something like Loon knot sense on the knot. It will form a super smooth connection that won't snag grass.

Sent from my SM-J320V using Tapatalk

 

[mjkirshner]

Here is a great trick to help with tying Blood Knots, makes it much quicker (if you have a toothpick handy).

YouTube

Not only does that make it easier, it saves my most colorful language for when I mess up a cast or hang my fly up in a tree. Until now, I have been exhausting my best while tying leaders, and have nothing original for when I am fishing.

---------- Post added at 02:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:32 PM ----------

Since you mentioned the Bahamas, If you are fishing over submerged grass, trim the tag ends of the blood knot real close and put a tiny dab of something like Loon knot sense on the knot. It will form a super smooth connection that won't snag grass.

Sent from my SM-J320V using Tapatalk

Thank you. I am forever picking pieces of weed out of the leader knots. Flexible Solarez works well on knots, but while it makes the surgeon's knot smoother, it also makes it bulkier. It should work great on blood knots.

It's funny, but I always use a blood knot to attach mono leader to braid on a spinning rod, but never used it for fly leaders. When I started fly fishing, I took the Orvis class and the instructor showed us the surgeon's knot for leaders, so that is just what I have always used.

 

[von behr]

Here is a great trick to help with tying Blood Knots, makes it much quicker (if you have a toothpick handy).

YouTube

Great post, Larry! I never would have thought of that. Thanks for sharing.

-VB

 

[sweetandsalt]

I too employ blood knots in both fresh and saltwater leader construction. They are strong, straight and elegant. It is true that in thicker diameters particularly with Fluorocarbon in the salt they are difficult to seat, which is critical. I use fewer turns as few as 4 or even 3 and pull hard wearing gloves or a pair of dish towels. Lower down the leader I use as many a 7 turns though 6 is more common. Examine your knots for symmetry and uniformity, there should be no overlapping coils and the tags should protrude perpendicularly opposite on another. Pull reasonably hard to check each knot, best you bust it than some bigun'.

Scotty, try this classic knot in place of the surgeons at home and compare, you will like it. And no, I do it with my fingers, not tool or toothpick.

 

[el jefe]

I too employ blood knots in both fresh and saltwater leader construction. They are strong, straight and elegant. It is true that in thicker diameters particularly with Fluorocarbon in the salt they are difficult to seat, which is critical. I use fewer turns as few as 4 or even 3 and pull hard wearing gloves or a pair of dish towels. Lower down the leader I use as many a 7 turns though 6 is more common. Examine your knots for symmetry and uniformity, there should be no overlapping coils and the tags should protrude perpendicularly opposite on another. Pull reasonably hard to check each knot, best you bust it than some bigun'.

Scotty, try this classic knot in place of the surgeons at home and compare, you will like it. And no, I do it with my fingers, not tool or toothpick.

S&S, one tip I saw for seating blood knots is to put a drop of fly floatant on your fingers and roll the untightened knot in your fingers to rub it around the area of the coils. It cinches down beautifully.

 

[sweetandsalt]

S&S, one tip I saw for seating blood knots is to put a drop of fly floatant on your fingers and roll the untightened knot in your fingers to rub it around the area of the coils. It cinches down beautifully.

No doubt about it, lubricating the nylon helps. I'm old school and just put the assembled knot in my mouth pre-tightening. On 40 to 60# fluoro though lubing is just not enough. Its lack of compression and stretch makes it grab itself and, yes I lube it too, but still need hand protection to fully seat those big knots. Small diameter material though should seat easily even with 6 or 7 turns each side.

 

[dillon]

I have heard that a cured uv resin can strengthen and smooth knots. i may try it on my steelhead leader blood knots.

I don't recall ever using a surgeons knot and I'm therefore knot sure how to tie one. I also do not use props for constructing a blood knot and once saw a guide tie one with his eyes closed. The skill can come in handy when sitting stream side testing knots work and waiting for the sun to rise...

 

[sweetandsalt]

Dillon, Not on my knotted portion of the Braid but on the nail knot to the braid and on my fluro salty leaders I employ Clear Cure Goo with a high intensity UV flashlight to seal knots more for smoothness than strength. I don't want a striped bonefish fly interrupted by a knot tag grabbing turtle grass.

 

[callihan_44]

I prefer the clean look of the blood knot, but sometimes i lose my patience tying them especially when the fish are biting and Im trying to hurry and get my line back in the water!

 

[brownbass]

Years ago when I did tie a leader and now if I did I wouldn't consider anything but a blood knot. Now with knotless leaders, I will use a triple surgeons knot for adding or replacing tippet. If I was fishing in the salt grass for anything I probably would go to a blood knot all the time.

Bill

 

[sweetandsalt]

I subscribe to the concept that knot tying is a fundamental angling skill set. I've been tying a repertoire of fishing knots for a long time and am always receptive to experimenting with new one. Indeed, several years ago I did add a new tippet knot called the Ligature which I often use on my saltwater tippets and always on my bonefish tippets. It is a little bulkier and more complex than a blood knot so I don't use it trout fishing where the blood is strong enough. I have about 95+% success tying multi-turn bloods and the rare ones that are going to fail do so in my hands in post snugging testing.

With experience one can tie blood knots in low light almost instinctively. Building you own leaders at home in good light will make you very comfortable and confident in your knots, even ones tied while the fish is rising.

 

[mjkirshner]

I prefer the clean look of the blood knot, but sometimes i lose my patience tying them especially when the fish are biting and Im trying to hurry and get my line back in the water!

This could help:

Speed Blood Knot - YouTube

It is not a true blood knot, but I don't think the difference would matter, and it does seem easier to tie.

I also tried with double uni-knots. It works, but I like the way the tag ends line up at the middle with the blood knots more than at the opposite ends with the uni-knots. It is easier to clip them short when they stand at 90 degrees than angling back like they do with surgeon's or uni-knots.