Fly line to leader albright damage

[bluechipfish]

I've been tying albrights for so many years in the conventional realm, and even use a close relative for putting wire traces on live bait sailfish rigs.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out how to stop the mono from digging out and "shaving" the fly line when I go to tighten it down. I'm looping the mono around the fly line. Anyone have a tip? Could I just have bad fly line? It was a cheap line, and is about 2 years old.

 

[ddb]

I can't think of any way an Albright that doesn't dig deep into and even strip off the line coating would stay in place during a fight with a heavy fish or even a determined effort to free a snagged fly! It s the wrong connection for hard mono and soft synthetic coatings.

There are way better options.

Most buy lines with ready made loops and then loop to loop the leader. The line loop can wear over time and even break. But you can reloop the fly line by cutting it back a smidge, stripping off the coating and reinserting the braid in itself.

The best connection form the start IMO is a braided mono sleeve with a loop. The braid slides over and up the fly line point and is anchored with barrel knots and covered by a thin coat of AquaSeal.

You can also insert the leader point into the core of a short section of stripped fly line and knot lock in place AquaSeal.

Youtube shows all these options.

ddb

 

[sweetandsalt]

Though it is not usually my go-to, I have employed the Albright in saltwater rigging using heavy Nylon and even harder Fluoro butt sections to fly lines many times, no problem. First, be certain your butt material mass matches your line size; too thin will not only cut the line coating but create a hinge point, Second, use enough coils, say 12, to distribute the knot tension over a suitable area. Lastly, do not yank to tighten, snug slowly and evenly making sure there are no coils overlaps and keep the front loop of fly line as small and tight s possible.

 

[pnc]

Loop or even nail knot. Only Albright I use is tippet to bite tippet.
Avoid problem.......

........ pc

 

[Rip Tide]

Loop or even nail knot. Only Albright I use is tippet to bite tippet.
Avoid problem.......

That's my opinion too.
I've had enough trouble with Albrights that I'll only use them for the leader to wire connection. For that they're the easiest way to go especially with a doubled tippet like a Bimini.
Even then I'll "lock" my Albright with a Uni knot to avoid slippage

 

[jr spey]

I can't think of any way an Albright that doesn't dig deep into and even strip off the line coating would stay in place during a fight with a heavy fish or even a determined effort to free a snagged fly! It s the wrong connection for hard mono and soft synthetic coatings.

There are way better options.

Most buy lines with ready made loops and then loop to loop the leader. The line loop can wear over time and even break. But you can reloop the fly line by cutting it back a smidge, stripping off the coating and reinserting the braid in itself.

The best connection form the start IMO is a braided mono sleeve with a loop. The braid slides over and up the fly line point and is anchored with barrel knots and covered by a thin coat of AquaSeal.

You can also insert the leader point into the core of a short section of stripped fly line and knot lock in place AquaSeal.

Youtube shows all these options.

ddb

Only I don't coat the entire sleeve with Aquaseal, only the actual knots. And I put a small drop of Duco or Loctite super glue on the knot before the Aquaseal. Coating all the braid removes the Chinese finger puzzle effect that's one of the advantages of using this approach.

 

[bluechipfish]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. I guess my mono is too small to by tying to this flyline, I'll incorporate loop connection.

 

[bluechipfish]

loop to loop with a perfection loop in my gel-spun worked very well. Used the welded loop on fly line.

 

[jr spey]

loop to loop with a perfection loop in my gel-spun worked very well. Used the welded loop on fly line.

Really? I haven't found the perfection loop to be a good knot at all with braid. What brand or style of braid are you using? Also, creating a double loop in braid makes it a lot tougher for the braid to cut through the flyline loop when using its welded loop.

 

[sweetandsalt]

I agree with jr spey, the perfection loop is useful for many applications but is not a strong knot particularly in slippery gel spun. I also like doubled loops for backing to fly line rear loop. My choice would be a large Bimini with its loop doubled back and a surgeon's knot employed to form a dual strand loop to better distribute forces that might cut the fly line. Of course, I thought this thread was about leader butt to fly line and I'll add that it is a good choice in the field where a thin tube for properly forming a multi-turn nail knot is not available as an Albright just needs your two hands.

 

[jr spey]

You're right about the thread drift that came from bluechip's post above. Not many guys I know use gel spun in their leaders. If one is intimidated by the Bimini twist, one thing I learned from Lefty is that a true triple surgeon's loop (which is six times through) is virtually as strong as a Bimini. Not quite as much shock absorption, but I've never noticed the difference. I can and have tied many biminis, but much prefer the surgeon's especially as I get older. Make a large loop just as you would with a Bimini and then fold it over as you describe and make a standard surgeon's. It is extremely critical when doing this to make sure that both loops formed are exactly the same length. Otherwise, you've defeated the purpose. That does take a bit of effort, and I start over again if I miscalculate.

 

[sweetandsalt]

I like the surgeons too and you're for sure correct that when doubling it is imperative to get all strands equal, not that easy either. But I like the Bimini, smoother and more elegant and I'm used to twisting it.

 

[Rip Tide]

Bimini's are fun to tie but the surgeon's loop is much more practical and when doubled, I suspect it works just as well too.

 

[pnc]

That's my opinion too.
I've had enough trouble with Albrights that I'll only use them for the leader to wire connection. For that they're the easiest way to go especially with a doubled tippet like a Bimini.
Even then I'll "lock" my Albright with a Uni knot to avoid slippage

Ok had think, lock with uni knot.
I tie biminis in both ends of tippet. One looped to leader. Other albright to shock tippet. Being impartial to knots (yes, I've got a smyrk) , I hit knot with swip of uv glue. Or knot sense if I'm out in the sun. Mostly I pre tie everything. Fly to loop that attaches to leader. Carry in stretchers. Then one loop and new fly, shock tippet, & tippet is attached.

......... pc

 

[mjkirshner]

First, be certain your butt material mass matches your line size

I stopped reading at "butt material mass." I thought this was a family paper.

 

[jr spey]

Bimini's are fun to tie but the surgeon's loop is much more practical and when doubled, I suspect it works just as well too.

The other thing that hasn't been pointed out as yet is that a bimini is not as strong with braid as it is with most other materials. Sportfishing magazine did an extensive article testing biminis in braid. I tried to reference that article from their website but it is no longer there. Bottom line, the strongest bimini was one that used only 12 twists. When I heard about that, I couldn't believe it. I brought up the article, read it thoroughly, and they convinced me they were right. I've since done a lot of them that way and never had a problem. These days, I just don't use biminis in my backing at all. Even the man I consider the fishing knot guru, Bill Nash, who really didn't like biminis in braid at all, said if you're going to do it anyway, at least use 70-100 twists. The Sportfishing article did one with about that many twists and it wasn't as strong as the 12 twist. They never said why. At least I don't remember it, but I think it had to do with the knot being too involved to get it exactly right with mega twists. Biminis, at least in my experience are easier to tie in monofilament (including fluorocarbon) than they are in Dacron braid or Spectra braid. Getting 70 or more twists to overwrap smoothly can't be easy (I've never tried it.). And as soon as you have gaps or an extra overwrap you've seriously weakened the knot. Bill says that even with that many twists, the bimini is still only a 90% knot.

 

[gpwhitejr]

Speaking of the Albright knot, I use it for attaching the backing to the line. I always seemed to have to make 2 or three attempts, as when I went to start tightening it the loops would tend to roll forward and slide off. So I created my own simple variation; it is hard to descrbe without pictures, but I will try. After folding the end of the fly line and passing the backing through the loop, you know how you then start wrapping the backing tag end OVER the standing backing and the line? Well, for the first wrap I just put it UNDER the long part of the backing (between the backing and the line). then when finished it tightens easily with no slip. It seems to tighten up well, and when testing it I pull harder than any fish I am likely to catch (admittedly I have never caught a fish that made me worry about my line-backing connection). I googled knots to see if someone else, surely, had come up with this already but didn't find anything, so if no one has seen this before I am going to call it White's Albright Variation (which sound more like a piece of classical music but I'm sticking with it). Try it and see what you think.

 

[sweetandsalt]

I stopped reading at "butt material mass." I thought this was a family paper.

Um, I thought you were supposed to be somewhere in South Florida learning your new rod?

Back to knots. I have no way of testing the strength of any of my knots other than by pulling hard on them. I typically apply 50 twists when tying a Bimini in backing and use my feet rather than my knees to spread the loop and apply the coiling...I start less snug then quickly alter my tag line angel to make them tightly concentric. All but never get an overlap and if I did, I'd back off and realign. I've long used Dacron though and am still learning about braid which has very different properties.

 

[bluechipfish]

Sorry for the the thread drift all, was just depositing an experience with loop-to-loop since learning it was best for leader to fly line. Now, guess I've made a mistake by using it from braid backing to fly line so I'll incorporate a doubled bimini or doubled surgeons. Good thing I came back and read this, as I'm hitting the docklights with my new outfit tomorrow..

Live morning report- the doubled over triple surgeons is extremely easy to tie, and is really quick. Thanks for teaching me.

 

[pnc]

Leared tying biminis in 200 lb mono years back. Smallest I tie it in now is 10 lb mono. Also in 50 lb gel spun.
Way back when till today. No matter size or material. 20 turns. Holds in everything for me for a long time.

As for biminis weakening gel spun. My case..... 50 lb gel spun, 90 percent, 45 lb. More than twice heaviest tippet I might ever use. More than 4 times that of normal tippet. I won't be changing a thing !
In general gel spun used for backing. Probably starts at 40 lbs. Any smaller is asking for problems. The breaking strength of any knot tied in gel spun is nothing of concern applied to fly fishing.

...... pc