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  1. #11

    Default Re: Why do my knots keep breaking ?

    I don't use the clinch, but the improved clinch has been very reliable for me except in one situation; tying light tipet to a larger sized hook. If I use 5X and tie an improved clinch on a size 14 hook I can bend the hook straight on a snag, but the same tippet will break at the knot very easily if I tie on a size 6 fly. That may not be your problem, but matching your tippet size to the size of your fly definitely is something to consider in tippets 5X or smaller.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
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    Northern Colorado
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    Default Re: Why do my knots keep breaking ?

    Quote Originally Posted by flav View Post
    I don't use the clinch, but the improved clinch has been very reliable for me except in one situation; tying light tipet to a larger sized hook. If I use 5X and tie an improved clinch on a size 14 hook I can bend the hook straight on a snag, but the same tippet will break at the knot very easily if I tie on a size 6 fly. That may not be your problem, but matching your tippet size to the size of your fly definitely is something to consider in tippets 5X or smaller.
    Now that you bring that up I wonder if that's what OP's issue is. Clinch and improved clinch do like to slip when tied with light material on heavy wire (which you wouldn't typically want to do).

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
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    Brazoria County, SE Texas
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    Default Re: Why do my knots keep breaking ?

    I bet itís a spool that got somehow weakened by some exposure to a harmful agent or off spec to begin with. Nylon can be weakened by exposure to various things, excessive heat, moisture, chemicals in the air, ultraviolet light. Thereís no practical way to know how that spool was handled from the time it was made to the point it reached your hands. Iíve had a spool of umpqua 20# nylon that I could break with a modest tug.

    Fluorocarbon is supposed to be immune to many of the same things that will degrade nylon and manufacturers are known to test material to make sure itís within specs, but you just never know. In another life, I was an industrial plastics broker. Thereís always some off specification material getting made by accident and that material often gets purchased at a discount and then gets blended in with in spec material to make some product. Thereís a huge market of post-industrial scrap or off specifications plastic and all that material finds its way into various products. Some of the scrap materials are really dicey or get contaminated with other incompatible plastics resulting in an end product that might be less than desired.

    BASF makes nylon 66 (one use is fishing line/tippet) right down the road from me. It gets made into pellets, Iíve been in the area where this all happens, and the pellets are loaded into pallets sized boxes that get shipped to some other manufacturers that makes the fishing line itself. That manufacturer is free to blend in any other material from any other source to make the line. The within specifications material costs X, the off spec material costs some fraction less than X. In thin margin types of business, thereís tremendous pressure to shave costs wherever and whenever possible. Thereís ways to do this and still have a quality end product, but mistakes get made.

    All this is is to point out thereís several pathways for something to go wrong with your tippet. You could have inadvertently done something to mess up the product, maybe gotten mosquito spray on it or blasted it repeatedly with your UV curing light. Tiny tippets at best are weak to begin with. Add in something negative like in some of the possibilities mentioned above and your knot breaks repeatedly. Get another spool of similar material and see if it breaks, then if it does, itís something related to your execution of the knot.
    Wherever you go, there you are.

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  5. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Pleasant hill California
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    2

    Default Re: Why do my knots keep breaking ?

    Thanks guys. I called an old pal from the South who is a competitive bass guy and he told me that for small diameter line he would go with a Davy knot. So I am going to try several different makers of tippet and try to get over 50 something years of tying clinch knots and learn another knot or two. The entire state of California is totally blown out for a week or two so I will sit around and drive my wife crazy practicing knots.

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  7. #15

    Default Re: Why do my knots keep breaking ?

    I've never used the Davy, but it seems like a great knot. Tight lines!
    Tight lines!

  8. #16

    Default Re: Why do my knots keep breaking ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mudhen View Post
    Thanks guys. I called an old pal from the South who is a competitive bass guy and he told me that for small diameter line he would go with a Davy knot. So I am going to try several different makers of tippet and try to get over 50 something years of tying clinch knots and learn another knot or two. The entire state of California is totally blown out for a week or two so I will sit around and drive my wife crazy practicing knots.
    I would not use a Davy. It is easy to tie but actually weaker than a Clinch Knot. I would not even use the double Davy - it is weaker than the Orvis knot.

    Art Scheck is a well know fly fisher. Here is what he has to say about his personal experience with the Orvis knot.

    Fly Fishing Knots: The Last Link

    "Some years ago, the Orvis Company held a contest in which anglers submitted new line-to-hook knots. A gentleman named Larry Becker won, and the knot he submitted is among the strongest, simplest, and most reliable that a fly fisher can use.] The Orvis knot is also very small and light.

    I thought that the 16-20 knot was the strongest tight-to-the eye connection in light nylon*until I tested it against the Orvis knot.

    In 3X and lighter nylon, the Orvis knot always beats the clinch and virtually always beats the Trilene and Palomar knots. I thought that the 16-20 knot was the strongest tight-to-the eye connection in light nylon until I tested it against the Orvis knot. In fifty tests made with 3X through 6X materials, the 16-20 broke twenty-six times and the Orvis knot broke eleven times. In the remaining thirteen cases, neither knot broke; the line parted somewhere between them.

    Unlike the 16-20, the Orvis knot works well in heavier lines. It’s easy to tie in the fairly stiff, 0.011-inch spinning line that I sometimes use for saltwater and heavy bass-fishing tippets. It’s also absurdly simple and almost impossible to screw up.
    The Orvis knot does have one drawback: It wants to cock at an angle as it’s tightened. If you begin the knot with the hook upright, the line cocks at an upward angle; if you start with the hook upside down, the line ends up cocked downward. You can easily push or pull the finished knot into correct alignment, but it might cock again while you false-cast. How much this matters depends on the fly and the situation. With a bushy dry fly, a cocked knot might result in a twisted tippet. The problem probably will not occur with a size 6 stonefly nymph.

    The Orvis knot’s great strength and simplicity make it worth using for some, if not most, of your fishing. It seems to work well in virtually any tippet material. Instructions are after those for the 16-20 knot."



    Orvis vs Davy:

    The Davy Knot: Is This The Quickest & Strongest Fishing Knot?

    Orvis vs Double Davy:

    Double Davy Knot: Video Tutorial and Strength Test

    Palomar is the strongest mono to hook BUT it is a poor knot for flies because a double loop of mono must be threaded through the hook eye:

    Best Fishing Knot for Leader to Hook Connection [Snug Style] >> Salt Strong Fishing

    "Although the Palomar ended up being the strongest in this contest, the Orvis Knot is still my favorite for this category because*its tag points down towards the hook lure allowing for less snags in addition to the fact that it’s easier to tie (especially if using artificial lures) while only having a slightly lighter breaking strength."


    Complete list of knot tests:

    The Best Fishing Knots Of All Time [Ranked Strongest To Weakest]

    Although the video below leaves a long tag end, you can tie it with an extremely short tag which minimizes shortening the tippet as you change flies.

    Regards,

    Silver



    "Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

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  10. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
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    Default Re: Why do my knots keep breaking ?

    I agree with SC; a Davy isn't known for great strength, so may not be appropriate for some techniques. But it is fast and very small and is adequate for smaller fish, or any situation where you don't have to worry about getting hung up very often.

    Also, I realized that I never gave an optional knot to the clinch. I usually use a Uni-knot for strength, knot-holding with flouro, and the fact that it can be used as a slip-knot/loop knot by simply not cinching it down to the hook eye. Here's a good clip on how to tie one:


    Note how the length of the tag end is entirely determined by how much of the tag end is sticking out of the loop before tightening the knot down, so you can have a six inch double over, as in the video or even larger and not worry about wasting all that line after tightening.

    Some modifications I use when tying this knot:

    About half-way through tightening down the knot, about when the loop double over into a kind of helix shape, I lube it by sticking the whole knot in my mouth liberally coating with spit. I know, gross, but whatever.

    You know you've tied this knot correctly if it "clicks" when tightened down to the hook-eye. If it doesn't, something is wrong. Start over. This doesn't apply when using as a slip knot/loop; it won't click.

    I may use as little as three turns, and no more than 5 turns for this knot. Less turns for smaller or spookier fish.

    To use as a slip knot/loop, I simply hold onto the hook-eye while pulling on the standing line until the knot hits my fingernails, then snug it down by pulling on the tag end to cinch down the knot. In this manner, I can have a loop as small as 3 or 4 mm in diameter, or about 1/8th inch off the hook-eye. And if during the fight the loop cinches down to the hook-eye, no problem. Carefully grip the base of the knot with your fingernails/smoothjaw hemostats and gently tug up the standing line to re-create your loop.

    Anyway, hope some of that helps someone.

    Peace.
    "Three-fourths of the Earth's surface is water, and one-fourth is land. It is quite clear that the good Lord intended us to spend triple the amount of time fishing as taking care of the lawn." ~Chuck Clark

  11. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
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    Perth, Western Australia
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    Default Re: Why do my knots keep breaking ?

    Is there link on how to tie Larry Becker's knot?
    IFFF Certified Casting Instructor

    Failing to practice is practicing to fail.

  12. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    N W Arkansas
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    790

    Default Re: Why do my knots keep breaking ?

    Could be hook eye. I had a few new flies I couldn't get a knot to hold. Was a bad batch of hooks.
    R Reese

  13. #20
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    Nov 2010
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    Default Re: Why do my knots keep breaking ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hirdy View Post
    Is there link on how to tie Larry Becker's knot?
    https://www.animatedknots.com/orvis/index.php
    "Three-fourths of the Earth's surface is water, and one-fourth is land. It is quite clear that the good Lord intended us to spend triple the amount of time fishing as taking care of the lawn." ~Chuck Clark

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