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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    south florida
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    2,205

    Default Factory Loops; why cut them off?

    I haven't had a factory loop fail since their early introducion, after one fell apart while casting. It would either have been a Rio or a Sci Anglers line.

    But I haven't used one now since that event. My next failure occurred on a premade, store bought hollow mono loop which did not have the second catch.

    Now the factory loops are much stronger and do not fail from a strength standpoint from what I've heard, but I've been cutting them out since before that happened.

    Where the new strong ones do fail, in my opinion, is that they are way, way too small and way way too stiff. They are hard to attach and much harder to undo because you can't even get your pinkie finger inside of the loops.

    They are also more than twice the diameter of the running line even when squashed together, and the small diameter of the loop wants to spread apart and form a circle.

    So the only way to securely attach backing to prevent the handshake connection from distorting into that other connection is to do two pass throughs with a half twist between.

    This is a major production to achieve through a factory loop about 3 times the diameter of a gnat's a$$hole and is a triple production to undo.

    By the time you are done, the backing line filaments are frayed all to hell, you have chewed your cigar into mush and have hexed everyone from xyz line company to hades.

    So I just cut mine off and make my own blind spliced loops big enough to fit a soccer ball through (maybe not quite) and attach it to the running line and do the same with the backing.

    Three fingers of each hand will easily fit through either loop and one yank loosens the handshake without disturbing one filament.

    And it's not that lines are changed that often because there are rods rigged and ready to go in the rod compartment.

    But it's nice that they can be, if necessary, and that the connections slip through the guides very easily and no one's name is taken in vain when lines do need to be changed. That usually happens at home on the deck but it's no harder at night in a boat.

    And if one fails, it is either my fault or horrible bad luck.

    But since I am the judge determining which was the cause, you can likely guess the usual verdict.
    http://www.miterclamp.com/Images/N_Amer_FF.jpg Cheers, Jim

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Wasilla / Skwentna, Alaska
    Posts
    17,665
    Blog Entries
    137

    Default Re: Factory Loops; why cut them off?

    Hiya Jim!

    You do know I stickied this right? Making The Blind Splice connection, by WJC;

    Anywhere can be the land of great expectations, broken dreams, or paradise found, it's all up to you.

    Life On The Line - Alaska Fishing with Ard
    Ard's Forum blog, Alaska Outdoors

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  5. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Albuquerque, NM
    Posts
    2,179

    Default Re: Factory Loops; why cut them off?

    I have purchased several of these from Ard, and give some away to my friends. These are excellent pieces of equipment.

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  7. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    quiet corner, ct
    Posts
    9,487

    Default Re: Factory Loops; why cut them off?

    Experience has taught me to never trust a knot that I didn't tie myself
    The simpler the outfit, the more skill it takes to manage it, and the more pleasure one gets in his achievements. --- Horace Kephart

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  9. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    California
    Posts
    257

    Default Re: Factory Loops; why cut them off?

    Sir,

    To answer your question "why cut off factory loops" My answer is the reason I do is because I use spectra backing (even doubled looped) will cut into the soft coating of a fly line either sinking or floating with a factory loop, I cut the factory loop off and replace it with a #50 pound braided loop and never ever have to worry about that problem again Now after that being said if I was a trout fisherman perhaps i wouldn't worry about it, however I am not I mostly in the last 10 years just do blue water. CB

  10. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    south florida
    Posts
    2,205

    Default Re: Factory Loops; why cut them off?

    Hey Carl,
    I got a great rigging tip from you quite a while back on another website that has really saved me a bunch of aggravation and maintenance. That tip was to coat pliobond “fairings” with “hard as nails” to make them more slippery than a sardine being trolled by a Zamboni. It also hugely improves their life expectancy, and they can quickly and easily be recoated.

    So here’s one that you might like if you are using hollow Spectra or equivalent with blind spliced loop in the backing, regardless of the loop on your fly line end.

    That is; do the inside-out part of the blind spliced loop in your hollow backing. But instead of immediately doing the second “lock catch” part, slide the tag end way up the main line of the backing to at least twice the length of your loop. Then you can insert, with a doubled bent length of #3 leader wire, a length of dacron or spectra into just that section of backing which will form the loop.

    Then slide the tag end back up to the start of the inserted line, and make the “lock catch.” So what you have is a doubled layered loop portion as a cushion for the handshake connection, but one inside the other without a knot holding two separate strands of backing.

    I do that even though I upsplice my backing from 60 lb Toro hollow to 80 lb JB hollow for the last 50 feet of backing that’s attached to the fly line. Makes it much easier to get the handshake connnection apart too.
    http://www.miterclamp.com/Images/N_Amer_FF.jpg Cheers, Jim

  11. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    California
    Posts
    257

    Default Re: Factory Loops; why cut them off?

    Jim,

    Thanks for the tip I never use JB "hollow" backing, I have stuck with 50 pound power pro since they invented dirt, besides who needs 60-80 backing? One 50 # braided loop hooked to another works like a champ.-CB

  12. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    south florida
    Posts
    2,205

    Default Re: Factory Loops; why cut them off?

    Carl,

    Are you doing your braided loops with 50# braided mono, 52# dacron or something else? If so, How do you connect the 50# braided loop to the power pro backing? In other words, what do you do in the backing itself to make a loop? Bimini with a surgeon's or something else?

    The reason I upsplice from 60" Toro to 8# JB is because of the channel markers, oysters and mussels, crab trap buoys, coral and so on, which isn't an issue in blue water of course. Those 50' take a beating over the course of a season. And I can cut it out and replace it in minutes with a knotless long splice.

    Both JB 80# and Toro 60# are smoother than silk and it's those 50 feet of backing attached to the fly line that goes in and out of the guides repeatedly during each fish fight and most susceptible to fraying even after that on the obstacles mentioned above.

    Power Pro Ace I've not tried because I've been very happy with the others made in the US and Japan, not China like the Power Pro.

    But I know that a lot of the deep droppers like round because it's cheap, and they say the hollow flattens out too much so their 10 pound weights do not hang down straight enough in the current when fishing for swords or tile fish at 1500 to 2000 foot depths.

    None of them use braided mono for their wind on leaders to my knowledge. Most use dacron (which has been hollow for many decades) and stuff their 300 lb mono or fluoro leaders way up into it for the finger torture connection then use a blind spliced loop on the other end of the dacron or spectra for a handshake connection to the main line.

    So I figure that if it's good enough for them, a shortened version is good enough for me.
    Last edited by wjc; 06-06-2019 at 12:08 AM. Reason: clarity in a question for CB
    http://www.miterclamp.com/Images/N_Amer_FF.jpg Cheers, Jim

  13. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    California
    Posts
    257

    Default Re: Factory Loops; why cut them off?

    WJC,

    First off to answer your question I make my own loops out of #50 braided mono about 5 inches long and use the double reverse system. 50 pound PP breaks at 72 pounds, however because of the poor knots in PP it's rated at #50. I tie a triple surgeons (6 times through) about 2 feet long. Then I fold the single loop back on it's self and tie another surgeons loop 3 times through, Now you have a loop about a foot long with doubled lines. This loop has been tested by a certified scale twice at 56.5 and 57. You can tie a Bimini twist about 50 turns with a doubled loop, pull that line through a piece of even 30 pound braid just like your making another loop with the reversed trap system then use one drop of "lock-tight" and you will have a 100% loop with braid, that loop was invented by a guy named MAX, and was called Max's "Coaxial Cable" a 100% knot in braid. sorry about all the details.without glue the "triple surgeons is the strongest knot in braid "said by the late Lefty". What I explained above is a 100% trouble free knot that has never failed me. Good luck on what ever you decide to tie CB

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