Mid section of taper to first section of tippet material, what knot?

[MTNRGR]

I'm a beginner, I tie my own leaders and I'm not convinced using the triple surgeon knot is the best knot for going from my last section of ultragreen to the first section of tippet material in the taper portion of the leader.
Seems kinda gangly to me and sets weird-ish.

Before anyone responds with "ultragreen?", i have been schooled and I'm switching to Chameleon.
Also...Yes fly fishing knots are new to me but i was a mountaineering instructor in alaska so i have a firm understanding of knot building, setting, function and dressing.

But as i stated, I'm just a beginner so what do i know.
Just looking for some suggestions of a better way, if their is one, from experienced fly anglers.

Thanks,
Jason

 

[jayr]

Furled leader.

 

[tcorfey]

I use a blood knot for all of my leader and tippet knots. I only use a triple surgeons knot if it is getting dark and I can't see very well but, I need to add some tippet. I can tie a blood knot pretty fast but I have to see it, I can tie a triple surgeons with my eyes closed.

 

[DonW]

I use a triple surgeon in all my tied leaders and find that it generally makes the cleanest connection for any knots that I can tie (I'm loosing/lost feeling/flexibility in my fingers do to age/health issues).

 

[karstopo]

I like a blood knot, maybe 5 or 6 turns. I put a little saliva on the knot as I cinch it up just to help it not get in a bind or burned and deform the material. The blood knot is slim and symmetrical and should hold strong if it cinches up correctly. Might take a little practice getting the moves down

 

[osseous]

Blood knot- if you were to buy a hand tied leader, it's the only knot you are likely to find. Goes through the guides cleanly. Lays out straight.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[jofer]

Try this one. Strong, quick and easy:Infinity Tippet Knot

Jofer

 

[silver creek]

Double post

 

[silver creek]

If you are going to build leaders, I suggest buying a Dennison Blood Knot Tool.

It will really speed up the process of building leaders and it is not that expensive. Here are a couple of places that carry it or you can do your own search. If you combine it with an order of tippet material, you can save on shipping.


Dennison Blood Knot Tyer Tool – Fly Artist


Dennison Blood Knot Tyer | Blood Knot Tying Tool

YouTube


Here is a hemostat Blood Knot but the Dennison tool wastes less material.

YouTube

 

[osseous]

If you are going to build leaders, I suggest buying a Dennison Blood Knot Tool.

It will really speed up the process of building leaders and it is not that expensive. Here are a couple of places that carry it or you can do your own search. If you combine it with an order of tippet material, you can save on shipping.


Dennison Blood Knot Tyer Tool – Fly Artist


Dennison Blood Knot Tyer | Blood Knot Tying Tool

YouTube


Here is a hemostat Blood Knot but the Dennison tool wastes less material.

YouTube

Hemostats are gonna mangle tippet and weaken it- or at least put a question in your mind about what you are fishing with. Replace them with one of the EZ hook hackle pliers like this if you want to use an aid-

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1...hook-and-hackle-pliers_large.jpg?v=1549075450

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[silver creek]

^^^^

Excellent point.

 

[Acheron]

Seems kinda gangly to me and sets weird-ish.

Based on this I am wondering if you are not tying the knot correctly. A common mistake that I made when I first learned this knot was to put the two ends of line together and perform the three times through overhand knot. This results in the two tag ends sticking out of the same end of the knot, causes a slight hinge, and is actually quite weak even though it may work sometimes.

Instead, be sure you cut the new piece of tippet from the spool, lay the line side by side, and perform the three times through overhand knot making sure you pull the long end of the new tippet and the tag end of the leader through the overhand knot. This will result a tag end sticking out each side of the knot and you know you have done it correctly.

This knot rarely breaks on me and can be tied easily in 30mph winds. I suggest practicing it until you are comfortable and efficient with it.

 

[flav]

If it's only the knot between the ultragreen and your tippet that seems "gangly" it's likely the difference in diameter between the two materials is too big. I've been tying leaders out of all ultragreen (can't stand chameleon) using surgeon's knots for years and I've had that issue too. I started using a loop knot and a loop to loop connection for this junction, it makes things so much easier. Loops aren't for everyone, though.

 

[MTNRGR]

If it's only the knot between the ultragreen and your tippet that seems "gangly" it's likely the difference in diameter between the two materials is too big. I've been tying leaders out of all ultragreen (can't stand chameleon) using surgeon's knots for years and I've had that issue too. I started using a loop knot and a loop to loop connection for this junction, it makes things so much easier. Loops aren't for everyone, though.

Thanks, im tapering my sizes down properly it just seems like its the difference in material from ultragreen to tippet is so different. So you do loop to loop right in the middle of the leader, seems like that would be an even more gangly mass of material closer to the fish?

 

[MTNRGR]

Based on this I am wondering if you are not tying the knot correctly. A common mistake that I made when I first learned this knot was to put the two ends of line together and perform the three times through overhand knot. This results in the two tag ends sticking out of the same end of the knot, causes a slight hinge, and is actually quite weak even though it may work sometimes.

Instead, be sure you cut the new piece of tippet from the spool, lay the line side by side, and perform the three times through overhand knot making sure you pull the long end of the new tippet and the tag end of the leader through the overhand knot. This will result a tag end sticking out each side of the knot and you know you have done it correctly.

This knot rarely breaks on me and can be tied easily in 30mph winds. I suggest practicing it until you are comfortable and efficient with it.

Im definitely tying the know correctly, i just feel like the difference between the double and triple surgeon knot is a lot.

 

[MTNRGR]

Furled leader.

Defeats the purpose of hand tying my own leaders, i want to be able to blame myself if something goes wrong, not wonder if i bought a defective product

 

[MTNRGR]

I like a blood knot, maybe 5 or 6 turns. I put a little saliva on the knot as I cinch it up just to help it not get in a bind or burned and deform the material. The blood knot is slim and symmetrical and should hold strong if it cinches up correctly. Might take a little practice getting the moves down

I use the blood know for all my upper taper junctions, but read its not good for attaching the first section of tiopet in the taper

 

[MTNRGR]

Thanks Silver its on ever growing list of gear to buy now.

 

[flav]

I end my ultragreen sections with 8 lb, which is .010 diameter (I think) and add whatever tippet I want to that. If I'm going to a 5X tippet, I usally use rio which is about 6 lb and .006, that difference is too big and makes a crappy knot. Rather than add another section of tippet in between I just use a loop and drop straight from leader to tippet.
A loop to loop tied with a perfection loop, surgeon's loop, or non slip loop (my fave), is actually pretty small, it just has that section of double line between the knots. The knot is several feet from the fly and I've never had any issues with knots spooking fish. Some guys like tippet rings for this junction, but I like my loop to loop so I've never felt the need to go that route.

 

[MTNRGR]

Yeah i decided not to use tippet rings, ive read less "good" stuff about them than positive stuff, especially when not being used in the butt. Ill give a loop a try and see. Thanks