Do you half hitch after your clinch knot?

haziz

Well-known member
Messages
80
Reaction score
9
Location
Western Massachusetts
I noticed a professional guide place a couple of half hitches after tying a clinch knot (or it could have been an improved clinch), when tying tippet to fly (trout flies); I think, after he got fairly frustrated with me losing a fly every couple of minutes. Having tried it myself since then, I think I am losing far less flies than I used to, and it only adds 30 seconds or so to attaching the fly.

Anybody add a couple of half hitches, after making a fairly competent clinch knot or improved clinch?
 
Last edited:

brownbass

Well-known member
Messages
1,717
Reaction score
164
Location
Marthasville Mo.
I think improved Clinch knot should be sufficient if tied correctly. Who tied the knots that failed? I'm sure you will get a lot of suggestions for favorite knots but I have used the Improved Clinch knot for most of my life and find it works most of the time.

Bill
 

haziz

Well-known member
Messages
80
Reaction score
9
Location
Western Massachusetts
I think improved Clinch knot should be sufficient if tied correctly. Who tied the knots that failed? I'm sure you will get a lot of suggestions for favorite knots but I have used the Improved Clinch knot for most of my life and find it works most of the time.

Bill
Initially, the flies were attached by the guide (> 30 years professional guiding experience).
 

brownbass

Well-known member
Messages
1,717
Reaction score
164
Location
Marthasville Mo.
Occasionally, I have days were my hands and eyes don't seem to work together as well as I would like. On those frustrating days, I just have to slow down and make sure I get that knot right. I have friends that are switching over to the Double Davy knot. While it works I seem to switch back to the Improved Clinch. Muscle memory I guess. I try to imagine adding a Half Hitch behind a Clinch knot and I just don't see it working, for me at least.

Bill
 

plecain

Well-known member
Messages
3,362
Reaction score
592
Location
NH
I have friends that are switching over to the Double Davy knot.
That's what I use about 90% of the time, even in saltwater where there might be big fish.

I can tie it in the dark. I can tie it with my forceps. It doesn't, however, work well at all with fluorocarbon. My workaround for that is to use monofilament.
 

strmanglr scott

Well-known member
Messages
217
Reaction score
7
Location
Michigan
I heard thoughts and seen tests on knots.

I've always used a simple cinch knot. From smallmouth to catfish, steelhead and salmon, never lost a fish due to the knot. I even use it on braid when I spin fish for salmon with my non-fly fishing friends.

When/if it becomes a problem, I'll tie a different knot.
 

sweetandsalt

Well-known member
Messages
18,476
Reaction score
12,243
Location
South of the Catskills
Adding a half hitch to finish a clinch would weaken the knot as all knots that pinch (like an overhand casting knot) cause a shear point. Bad news: while most guides are good at knot tying, some are as bad as the average angler. Doing something wrong for 30 years does not make it better.
 

osseous

Well-known member
Messages
3,608
Reaction score
3,029
Simple answer: Test it! I tell people this all the time, but for some reason, few are willing to simply test their connections.

Tie one knot to a hook. At the other end, tie a second hook with the other knot. Take two sets of pliers. Pull the the two apart until failure. Repeat the test a few times until you reach a consensus about which knot is stronger. Now you know. Until you do this yourself, you are just going on blind faith.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 

original cormorant

Well-known member
Messages
1,200
Reaction score
779
Simple answer: Test it! I tell people this all the time, but for some reason, few are willing to simply test their connections.

Tie one knot to a hook. At the other end, tie a second hook with the other knot. Take two sets of pliers. Pull the the two apart until failure. Repeat the test a few times until you reach a consensus about which knot is stronger. Now you know. Until you do this yourself, you are just going on blind faith.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
I agree except that this implies a steadily increasing pressure. A jerk will simulate better how knots fail in fishing.
 

flav

Well-known member
Messages
2,110
Reaction score
1,889
Location
oregon
I test all my knots like that. I've been surprised by some of the results.
If you were losing a fly every few minutes that sounds more like a casting problem over a knot problem, unless you were breaking them off on hooked fish.
I've never heard of adding a half hitch to a clinch knot, if it's tied well it's plenty strong by itself.
 

sweetandsalt

Well-known member
Messages
18,476
Reaction score
12,243
Location
South of the Catskills
Simple answer: Test it! I tell people this all the time, but for some reason, few are willing to simply test their connections.

Tie one knot to a hook. At the other end, tie a second hook with the other knot. Take two sets of pliers. Pull the the two apart until failure. Repeat the test a few times until you reach a consensus about which knot is stronger. Now you know. Until you do this yourself, you are just going on blind faith.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
I support and have performed this testing which is how I determined and convinced my shop owning friend that the Trileen is stronger than the Improved Clinch...we both switched years ago now. Oh, use bigger hooks to make gripping easer and as today's 5X is stronger than dry fly hooks. And, if one is busting knots on the take, it might be bad knots or bad technique.

Every knot you tie in any part of your rigging, test it by trying to break it. Better you than some big fish.
 

osseous

Well-known member
Messages
3,608
Reaction score
3,029
I agree except that this implies a steadily increasing pressure. A jerk will simulate better how knots fail in fishing.
Don't assume-

I test with a slow, steady pull. "Static" test. Most of these new, fancy knots (hello, Davy!) lose at this stage. If they beat out my old reliable at this stage, then I move on to a more aggressive tug- "Dynamic". BUT, that is fairly hard to duplicate with a fly rod- its length just provides too much cushion, to be honest. If you have your act together as an angler, the static pull is far more telling.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 

spm

Well-known member
Messages
4,214
Reaction score
1,184
Location
Mid-Missouri
Occasionally, I have days were my hands and eyes don't seem to work together as well as I would like.
Bill
Amen, brother.

I like the Davy knot, but can't always get my fingers to work and forget about the double davy. I started going back to the clinch this week and might try adding a half-hitch.

steve
 

sweetandsalt

Well-known member
Messages
18,476
Reaction score
12,243
Location
South of the Catskills
I didn't break a single knot, at fly or tippet, in Montana this season. But at the beginning of our trip last year we were on the Fork and I fed a fine rainbow, slip struck and POP. Weird I thought and checking, my knot didn't break but up the tippet a little. OK, I mast have had a nick or bit of abrasion. Trileened on a new fly and another rainbow rose...POP. Hmmm, took the spool of quality maybe two year old 5X out of my pocket, pulled off a hank and began to stretch it out and POP at perhaps a 1/2 lb. of pressure if that. A fresh spool of EVO tippet from nearby TroutHunter fly shop solved my problem. So, check your knots AND your tippet material.
 

knotjoe

Well-known member
Messages
1,512
Reaction score
1,663
Location
-58.948861, -123.744444
I have begun to wonder if the OP line was old or bad. Was there a telltale on the line?

Bill
Sometimes it’s the line, often the hook eye. Rarely a burr inside, but if the hook dinged a rock you can get a rub/abrasion on the outer eye portion and it *may* chew into the knot over time. I did this with a file one time and grazed the eye…that fly was shot to heck right there. Another nasty is the eye closure, if it’s incomplete or has an edge to it, watch out. If the knot slips/slides to that area, you just lost a lot of strength. Look ‘em in the eye before you tie is my mantra, occasionally I’ll spot a sloppy hook before it hits the vise jaws.

As far as half hitches and simple overhand finishes on Clinch? No, no good reason. However, the double overhand loop idea does great with a finish knot. I hate the way the tag end points toward the angler/mainline and put in a double just to get a side exit point to the tag end. No more weed grabber problems! Doesn’t have anything to do with the strength nor does it compromise it, just a way to manage the tag exit angle and it works great.

Clinch has a perfect exit tag the way it is. Palomar sucks just like the Double Overhand, so they get the extra to avoid moss. Try it, a simple overhand finish bends the tag proper on some knots and cannot cut the line as it receives no real tension. Nothing more than a tag bender yet very useful idea.
 

mtboiler

Well-known member
Messages
877
Reaction score
544
Location
Whitefish, MT
Ok, question. Do you have a pig tail or clean break at the end of the line?

If you have a pig tail you are not breaking off as much as pulling out the knot. You need to tighten the knot down tighter. A small gap can cause the fly to come untied. If you have a clean break you have one of two problems. Bad casting, which you can hear when you 'crack the whip'. Or you have bad tippet. Pull off the tippet keeper wrap and look at the color of the tippet. Is it still shinny and bright? IF it is, it is still good. Run it through your fingers. Does it leave a white chalky paste on your fingers? If it does, toss it.
IF it is a clean break, run your fingers down the leader. Are their wind knots? If so, cut them out and retie.
My guess is you are losing flies as a combination of two things, wind knots and bad knots. I pull each connection pretty snug as soon as I tie it. Rather have it come off in my hands than in the water with a fish. You will get the hang of how hard you can pull before breaking the tippet. Yesterday, I felt a rough spot on the leader. Gave it a tug and it broke. Retied the tippet without the rough spot...and caught a nice fish. Would have never landed that fish had I not found that rough spot.
 
Top