What is this knot?!?

[brokeoff]

A guide tied on a leader to the fly line using this knot. It was very quick and doesn’t look like a blood knot. In the second photo you can see the leader material making a diagonal pass around the outside of the coils.

 

[el jefe]

Looks like a nail knot to me. Did he use a tool or prop when he tied it?

 

[silver creek]

A guide tied on a leader to the fly line using this knot. It was very quick and doesn’t look like a blood knot. In the second photo you can see the leader material making a diagonal pass around the outside of the coils.

View attachment 21503

Look at the knot in the photo above. See how there is a wrap of the leader butt along the knot OUTSIDE the wraps? that suggest to me that it is not a true nail knot but a "nailless" nail knot.

nail-less

YouTube

 

[brokeoff]

Look at the knot in the photo above. See how there is a wrap of the leader butt along the knot OUTSIDE the wraps? that suggest to me that it is not a true nail knot but a "nailless" nail knot.

I saw this video but didn't think this was the exact same because even the "nailless" nail knot doesn't have that diagonal wrap outside main wraps.

 

[joe_strummer]

That's the Quick and Sloppy Nail Knot, looks like to me, with one coil out of place. The line-ward coil crossing over stuff should be tippet-ward? I tie my nail knots without a tool, proper nail knot not quick/nailless nail knot, and this can happen.

 

[silver creek]

I saw this video but didn't think this was the exact same because even the "nailless" nail knot doesn't have that diagonal wrap outside main wraps.

Actually it does. The video "hides" the outside wrap on the other side of the knot. Tie the knot and you know.

Because the wraps around the fly line are made UNDER a loop of the leader butt, that loop of the leader butt HAS to end up OVER the wraps!

Think in 3 dimensions and visualize how the knot is tied and you will see that it has to end up with a section of the leader butt over the wraps.

Click on the link below and you get the image below it as step 6:

nail-less nail knot

 

[brokeoff]

Actually it does. The video "hides" the outside wrap on the other side of the knot. Tie the knot and you know.

Because the wraps around the fly line are made UNDER a loop of the leader butt, that loop of the leader butt HAS to end up OVER the wraps!

Think in 3 dimensions and visualize how the knot is tied and you will see that it has to end up with a section of the leader butt over the wraps.

Click on the link below and you get the image below it as step 6:

nail-less nail knot

Yup, that's it. Thanks!

 

[osseous]

Some call it a Borger knot- as it is the connection Gary Borger advocates. Easily done streamside- so you'll see guides cut off the knot their clients show up with in favor of this, when rigging up in the morning.

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[trev]

That illustration looks very much like a uni knot?

 

[silver creek]

That illustration looks very much like a uni knot?

Now that you mention it, I think it is one side of a double uni-knot.

 

[osseous]

Now that you mention it... here's the Borger, and it's different

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[trev]

I guess I'm dense but I'm not seeing the difference. Years ago I used the Duncan Loop a lot (before I ever saw it called Uni) and the first time I saw the Borger knot I thought it was the same knot. I know that when Jason illustrates it he shows the twists not touching, even after tightening but otherwise they appear to be the same; a loop with the tag wrapped several times through it before tightening.

>>edit; the internet is dang near as good as library for finding things out-
In this 2015 article The 7 core fly fishing knots | Hatch Magazine - Fly Fishing, etc. Gary Borger states;

The Nailless Nail Knot that I use is a variation of the Uni-Knot or Duncan's Loop Knot. It's used to attach backing to the rear end of the fly line, and the leader or the connector to the front end of the fly line. I've used the Uni-Knot since 1973, but didn't figure out the Nailless Nail Knot variation until 1986. I've used it continuously ever since.

 

[osseous]

I guess I'm dense but I'm not seeing the difference. Years ago I used the Duncan Loop a lot (before I ever saw it called Uni) and the first time I saw the Borger knot I thought it was the same knot. I know that when Jason illustrates it he shows the twists not touching, even after tightening but otherwise they appear to be the same; a loop with the tag wrapped several times through it before tightening.

>>edit; the internet is dang near as good as library for finding things out-
In this 2015 article The 7 core fly fishing knots | Hatch Magazine - Fly Fishing, etc. Gary Borger states;

With the Uni, the leader that parallels the fly line lays outside of the twists. With the Borger, that parallel section lays beneath the twists.

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[jrp11948]

Looks like an Albright knot used to tie the backing to the fly line.