i have been using SA leaders jsut cause i can get them at Wal Mart pretty cheap...now i see they are stocking all Cortland stuff...are these good leaders? or are the other brands like Frog Hair and Rio better? and what ones would you suggest for trout fishing in pretty clear water
leader and tippet question
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axle27
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Luked,
I quit using tapered leaders. After fooling around getting it untangled streamside, I went with furled leaders. They will last all season and turn a fly quite well, IMO. I use a flouro furled leader for streams as the flouro sinks better than mono.
If it does come out kinked up, just give it a little stretch and off you go.
Joni makes some good ones.
I quit using tapered leaders. After fooling around getting it untangled streamside, I went with furled leaders. They will last all season and turn a fly quite well, IMO. I use a flouro furled leader for streams as the flouro sinks better than mono.
If it does come out kinked up, just give it a little stretch and off you go.
Joni makes some good ones.
luked,
I use furled leaders (from Joni) as well, they do last a long time and they lay out dry flies very nicely. I still have a couple mono tapered leaders on a couple reels and they work fine and have worked fine for a lot of people for a long time. I like the furled with the tippet rings because I can more easily control the tippet length (I tie on with a uni knot). With a mono leader it is not as easy, you are dealing with different thicknesses of mono and tippet, etc... It can be done, and I have done it, I just prefer the furled with the tippet ring - mine last me at least a full season and I have one that I have had on for almost a year - I fish about once a week weather permitting.
In answer to your specific question, I have used cortland and rio, Cortland are ok, rio are a bit better, you sometimes have to stretch mono leaders them to get them to lose thier memory (stop curling).
I have not used the frogs hair, but I have heard they don't have as much memory as other mono leaders.
d
I use furled leaders (from Joni) as well, they do last a long time and they lay out dry flies very nicely. I still have a couple mono tapered leaders on a couple reels and they work fine and have worked fine for a lot of people for a long time. I like the furled with the tippet rings because I can more easily control the tippet length (I tie on with a uni knot). With a mono leader it is not as easy, you are dealing with different thicknesses of mono and tippet, etc... It can be done, and I have done it, I just prefer the furled with the tippet ring - mine last me at least a full season and I have one that I have had on for almost a year - I fish about once a week weather permitting.
In answer to your specific question, I have used cortland and rio, Cortland are ok, rio are a bit better, you sometimes have to stretch mono leaders them to get them to lose thier memory (stop curling).
I have not used the frogs hair, but I have heard they don't have as much memory as other mono leaders.
d
Frank Whiton
Most Senior Member
Hi luke,
The SA tapered leaders are the only ones I have used that I didn't like. Now all I use are the Frog Hair and like them a lot. One leader will last me a long time. The Frog Hair leaders are a bit more expensive. Here is the procedure that works for me.
1. When you start using a new leader or one that has not been fished for awhile I stretch it by pulling it over my knee. I just bend down and pull the leader up against my knee. I can do about three feet at a time. Working my way to include the complete leader.
2. I take my Mike Rite and measure the tippet to see where it starts to taper. I cut off all but about six inches of the tippet and tie a Perfection Loop or a Non-Slip Mono Knot in the end of the leader.
3. I pull off the amount of tippet I want to fish plus enough to tie a knot and Stretch it.
4. I tie a loop in one end of the tippet like I did in step 2.
5. I loop the tippet to the leader. Now you can go fishing or add split shot as follows.
6. If I want to use split shot I fasten it to the tippet part of the loop that fasten the tippet to the leader. The knot keeps the split shot from slipping down.
7. I check that the tippet is as long as I wanted from the split shot, plus a few inches.
8. I tie on my fly and it should be just the distance from the split shot that I wanted.
9. If I want a dropper fly I attach another piece of tippet to the bend of the hook after I stretch it. Then I tie the dropper fly to the end of the tippet material.
This works for me and it is easy to change the tippet by cutting off the fly and looping on another tippet. If you want to use a Fluro tippet just loop it on. If you want to go from a 5x tippet to a 7x tippet, just remove the 5x tippet and loop on a 7x tippet. This way you don't have to fool with a blood knot on the water.
Frank
The SA tapered leaders are the only ones I have used that I didn't like. Now all I use are the Frog Hair and like them a lot. One leader will last me a long time. The Frog Hair leaders are a bit more expensive. Here is the procedure that works for me.
1. When you start using a new leader or one that has not been fished for awhile I stretch it by pulling it over my knee. I just bend down and pull the leader up against my knee. I can do about three feet at a time. Working my way to include the complete leader.
2. I take my Mike Rite and measure the tippet to see where it starts to taper. I cut off all but about six inches of the tippet and tie a Perfection Loop or a Non-Slip Mono Knot in the end of the leader.
3. I pull off the amount of tippet I want to fish plus enough to tie a knot and Stretch it.
4. I tie a loop in one end of the tippet like I did in step 2.
5. I loop the tippet to the leader. Now you can go fishing or add split shot as follows.
6. If I want to use split shot I fasten it to the tippet part of the loop that fasten the tippet to the leader. The knot keeps the split shot from slipping down.
7. I check that the tippet is as long as I wanted from the split shot, plus a few inches.
8. I tie on my fly and it should be just the distance from the split shot that I wanted.
9. If I want a dropper fly I attach another piece of tippet to the bend of the hook after I stretch it. Then I tie the dropper fly to the end of the tippet material.
This works for me and it is easy to change the tippet by cutting off the fly and looping on another tippet. If you want to use a Fluro tippet just loop it on. If you want to go from a 5x tippet to a 7x tippet, just remove the 5x tippet and loop on a 7x tippet. This way you don't have to fool with a blood knot on the water.
Frank
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I have found the best leader when fishing in ultra clear (chalkstream) water or when fishing for 'spooked' fish is to use 6-12ft (depending on your rod size) of 4lb high quality flourocarbon. You can still put droppers on but I would use a max of 2, it works for me every time.
Hope this helps.
Hope this helps.
Thanks for the help fellas.....the SA leaders seem to have a lot of Memory to them...im gonna get a few of the Cortland ones and see if they are any better.......Frank...thanks for the tip in the loop...i would have never thought of that...i do it where leader goes to the fly line dont know why i never thought to do it with the leader to tippet..and the splitshot idea is good to...ill try it and see how it works.
i did get in touch with Joni and gonna try one of her Furled leaders and see how it does...hopefully ill be able to get the new rod this week and get to go out again on the water some....after that i wont get to go till March 1st when season starts up again...they cut our winter catch and release season off on the 8th of this month so ill have a little time to gear up some more before season gets in full swing
i did get in touch with Joni and gonna try one of her Furled leaders and see how it does...hopefully ill be able to get the new rod this week and get to go out again on the water some....after that i wont get to go till March 1st when season starts up again...they cut our winter catch and release season off on the 8th of this month so ill have a little time to gear up some more before season gets in full swing
flatslandercp
Well-known member
luked,
If your up for a road trip next weekend (13th and 14th), I'll be at the KC Cabela's doing seminars at their Spring Great Outdoors Days, and we'll be doing one each day on building furled leaders without tools or jigs. They may not be quite as sexy as Joni's, as they only have one taper, but they work really well for us and are dirt cheap to make.
If you are curious, we have a video on our web site, along with the article I wrote for American Angler on the technique.
Kansas Fly Fishing for Carp
Craig
If your up for a road trip next weekend (13th and 14th), I'll be at the KC Cabela's doing seminars at their Spring Great Outdoors Days, and we'll be doing one each day on building furled leaders without tools or jigs. They may not be quite as sexy as Joni's, as they only have one taper, but they work really well for us and are dirt cheap to make.
If you are curious, we have a video on our web site, along with the article I wrote for American Angler on the technique.
Kansas Fly Fishing for Carp
Craig
flatslandercp
Well-known member
We worked Hazelwood last spring, but there seems to be a great deal of variability in the authority of the Events Managers at each store. The KC guy takes good care of us, but we're a pretty cheap date since it is a short drive, so we don't hurt his budget much for a motel, meals, and 125 miles round trip. I'm pretty sure we bring enough people to the store for them to recover that.
We're not looking to make money, just cover our expenses. Hazelwood pushed back on the companies we pro staff for last year, instead of picking up the tab. Don't understand the difference. We'd be willing to go to Hazelwood if it fits the schedule. Ask the shop guys, or the events manager about having us up next time you're in there and maybe it will happen soon.
Seminar season will be picking up soon. We'll be doing club programs in Chicago in late March, and maybe Houston in early April on the way to the Gulf Coast Conclave in New Braunfels, TX April 8th. Then we're in Little Rock sometime in early May.
We're not looking to make money, just cover our expenses. Hazelwood pushed back on the companies we pro staff for last year, instead of picking up the tab. Don't understand the difference. We'd be willing to go to Hazelwood if it fits the schedule. Ask the shop guys, or the events manager about having us up next time you're in there and maybe it will happen soon.
Seminar season will be picking up soon. We'll be doing club programs in Chicago in late March, and maybe Houston in early April on the way to the Gulf Coast Conclave in New Braunfels, TX April 8th. Then we're in Little Rock sometime in early May.
just read your article and watched your video, gonna give one of these a try tonight. I was thinking though, that I have some tippet rings and you could add a tippet ring to the small section of these to make adding tippet even easier to add and remove tippet.
You could also post a link to your video right in this thread for those that want to see how easy it is done.
d
You could also post a link to your video right in this thread for those that want to see how easy it is done.
d
flatslandercp
Well-known member
Thanks folks!
As to rings, I've never seen the need to use them. With light leaders (4 and 6# Ande mono), sometimes it is a little hard to change tippets. 2 pound leaders are really hard to hold that first (tippet end) loop in. So we sometimes put a perfection loop there. But we don't fish leaders and tippets that light much. We're not trout guys, we fish for carp, wipers, and saltwater fish, so 6 and 8 # are our bread and butter. And they are so cheap to make, you can always just tie on another one if the tippet end loop doesn't work any longer.
I'll see if I can get the vid to post. For some reason, I can't see our website in the present form. I must have some weird cookie hidden somewhere that takes me to an old version, which doesn't have the vid link. But I'll see if my guiding partner who made it can send me the link.
Craig
As to rings, I've never seen the need to use them. With light leaders (4 and 6# Ande mono), sometimes it is a little hard to change tippets. 2 pound leaders are really hard to hold that first (tippet end) loop in. So we sometimes put a perfection loop there. But we don't fish leaders and tippets that light much. We're not trout guys, we fish for carp, wipers, and saltwater fish, so 6 and 8 # are our bread and butter. And they are so cheap to make, you can always just tie on another one if the tippet end loop doesn't work any longer.
I'll see if I can get the vid to post. For some reason, I can't see our website in the present form. I must have some weird cookie hidden somewhere that takes me to an old version, which doesn't have the vid link. But I'll see if my guiding partner who made it can send me the link.
Craig
flatslandercp
Well-known member
We put the video on YouTube
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbcVaEe3RIs"]YouTube- Building Furled Leaders Without JIgs or Tools[/ame]
Let me know if it doesn't work.
Craig
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbcVaEe3RIs"]YouTube- Building Furled Leaders Without JIgs or Tools[/ame]
Let me know if it doesn't work.
Craig
flatslandercp
Well-known member
Did you stretch it? That's what most people who have trouble don't do.
If you did stretch it, it is possible, make that likely, that your first few won't be furled tightly enough to keep the ends from unraveling at least a few inches. Also make certain that your free ends are indeed free to spin. If they don't spin (and they will try to tangle when they do) you won't be putting new memory in the line.
I jokingly say the first hundred won't look great, but at about 3 cents each, you're not out half the cost of a commercial tapered or furled leader.
Go much slower than Captain Sodie does in the video. He's built hundreds, maybe a thousand, leaders, and we're both pretty fast at them by now. Take your time, don't pinch with your off hand, and twist them pretty tightly.
Hope that helps.
If you did stretch it, it is possible, make that likely, that your first few won't be furled tightly enough to keep the ends from unraveling at least a few inches. Also make certain that your free ends are indeed free to spin. If they don't spin (and they will try to tangle when they do) you won't be putting new memory in the line.
I jokingly say the first hundred won't look great, but at about 3 cents each, you're not out half the cost of a commercial tapered or furled leader.
Go much slower than Captain Sodie does in the video. He's built hundreds, maybe a thousand, leaders, and we're both pretty fast at them by now. Take your time, don't pinch with your off hand, and twist them pretty tightly.
Hope that helps.
crittergetter
Well-known member
Ditto's master C. we are not worthy :worthy:
I tried pinching harder with both fingers which helped a bit but ended up with my first loop 3 inches in diameter
flatslandercp
Well-known member
Attempting triage and diagnosis over the internet - WebMD I ain't, but ....
Again, make certain you take all memory out of the mono before you start furling. ALL of it, the line should lie limp. Cut off any ends that are not limp, completely limp, with no curls.
OK, now that I'm given that hint: The FIRST loop you form must be formed with pretty good pressure with the off hand to lock in the tippet end loop. Don't pull, just get that first loop locked. But, don't worry too much about your first tippet end loops, focus on the furling part and getting into a steady pace with tight and uniform twists. Then work on the tippet loop.
My other recommendation, move to 10 or 12 pound test for the first few. It is just easier to handle than 6. Get the technique down with that then move down.
Third tip - if you have any Scientific Anglers bulk tippet material in 3X or bigger, try it. 1X should be perfect. I got a 100 yard spool once thrown in to an order and it furls like butta. I don't like the amount of stretch in the finished leader, but I loved the way it furled.
If all else fails - Drive to Kansas City this weekend, Chicago on 30 March, New Braunfels on 8 April, Little Rock in mid May, or to the Manhattan, KS area just about any time other than those and we'll show you in person. Our standard rate for in person furled leader lessons is 1 beer per instructor. No BMC (budmillercoors). We're home brewers and beer snobs, we don't drink fizzy yellow beer (FYB)!
Again, make certain you take all memory out of the mono before you start furling. ALL of it, the line should lie limp. Cut off any ends that are not limp, completely limp, with no curls.
OK, now that I'm given that hint: The FIRST loop you form must be formed with pretty good pressure with the off hand to lock in the tippet end loop. Don't pull, just get that first loop locked. But, don't worry too much about your first tippet end loops, focus on the furling part and getting into a steady pace with tight and uniform twists. Then work on the tippet loop.
My other recommendation, move to 10 or 12 pound test for the first few. It is just easier to handle than 6. Get the technique down with that then move down.
Third tip - if you have any Scientific Anglers bulk tippet material in 3X or bigger, try it. 1X should be perfect. I got a 100 yard spool once thrown in to an order and it furls like butta. I don't like the amount of stretch in the finished leader, but I loved the way it furled.
If all else fails - Drive to Kansas City this weekend, Chicago on 30 March, New Braunfels on 8 April, Little Rock in mid May, or to the Manhattan, KS area just about any time other than those and we'll show you in person. Our standard rate for in person furled leader lessons is 1 beer per instructor. No BMC (budmillercoors). We're home brewers and beer snobs, we don't drink fizzy yellow beer (FYB)!
Joni
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These are level leaders, right?
The tapered with a jig, can be casted by themselves.
I can see the level if trolling (sort of, cause I wouldn't use a taper leader in that case) or if using a sinking line, where light presentation is not an issue.
How do these cast compared to a tapered and dry fly?
The tapered with a jig, can be casted by themselves.
I can see the level if trolling (sort of, cause I wouldn't use a taper leader in that case) or if using a sinking line, where light presentation is not an issue.
How do these cast compared to a tapered and dry fly?