Line for Winston Tom Morgan Favorite

[wichaka]

I was recently able to obtain an older IM6 TMF, based on a Loomis blank.

I haven't got it on the water yet, but have been out on the yard casting away with it. I really like the feel of it, even when compared to my Scoot G.

Anyway, loaded it up with RIO Trout LT WF4F line, and it loaded and cast great. Then tried the same make and style of line, but in WF3F. This proved too light, as it was hard to load the rod and really get any feel out of it.

I must say that at times the 4wt line seemed a bit much.

Now to the question...Morgan has said that the rod is more like a 3 1/2 weight...so has anyone tried a 3+ wt line on a TMF?

Am thinking about the SA GPX line, which is a 1/2 weight heavier, which would put the line right at what Morgan is saying the rod is.

Thoughts?

 

[cletus]

I use either a Rio Selective Trout II DT4F or Wulff Triangle Taper 4 on my TMF. The topic was much-discussed on the now defunct Winston forum. The consensus was that a DT4 was the right line for that rod but of course, YMMV. That's a great rod, have fun with it!

 

[wichaka]

I was over on the Winston forum awhile back. I could see the discussions, but couldn't post.

I just checked, and can't access nothing now. Wish they would have left up the forum, would have been a great resource to look thru.

 

[sweetandsalt]

I know that the early generation Winston graphite blanks were built to Morgan/Bracket specifications by J.Kennedy Fisher. I was not aware that Gary Loomis was a supplier to them as well. Can anyone elaborate on this please?

Also the various generation 8'/#4 TMF's will no doubt vary as to the optimal line match-up. A bit of mix and match may be called for here. There may be someone at Winston that can advise and recommend. I am inclined to speculate that SA's delicate front tapered Textured TroutStalker might be just right.

 

[burk48237]

I know I'm the Cortland rep, but I have more than a few Winston Pro's including Mark Hendricks (head guide at Gates) who run Cortland Platinum on that rod and love it. I like it on mine, it's a shorter head than Trout Boss, but the Dyna Tip still lays down nice. The TMF is a great Sulpher rod up here, but the 8 1/2-5 WT is the Staff of Moses on the Holy Water (Ausable).

 

[mojo]

Did Loomis ever make anything as slow as IM6?
Fisher was the only one I've heard made blanks other than Winston. At least when it came to production rods.
Joni has a JWF (same blank) and SS is her choice. Tried Rio LT and Gold and they were ok.
Where did you get your information from about Morgan saying it's a 3 1/2 wt.?
I would try the Common Cents System and then see if you need a 3 1/2 or 4 wt. line.

 

[cletus]

Mojo,

I've seen it described as a 3 1/2 wt a number of times on the Winston forum (always attributed to Tom Morgan himself). Here was a recent interview with him in which he alludes to it as well.

Eric

Untitled

 

[wichaka]

When Winston had their forum going, they had some info. on TMF's;

Blanks made by Fisher were made up to serial # 11,959

Loomis up to # 43,499 and then in house after that using the WT blank.

 

[mtbusman]

I remember some of the discussion about this on the winston forum. The idea that the rod is like a 3.5 weight is because it was designed to fully load at shorter distances. Morgan designed it to be used with a true four weight double taper line. If you want to be a traditionalist about it, you'd get one of those supple Cortland peach colored double taper four weight lines. A true four weight line, maybe a double taper with a delicate tip section, should enable the rod to do what it was designed to do. It was designed for the sweetest, most delicate presentations up close.

Have fun. You've got a classic.

 

[wichaka]

I know I'm the Cortland rep, but I have more than a few Winston Pro's including Mark Hendricks (head guide at Gates) who run Cortland Platinum on that rod and love it. I like it on mine, it's a shorter head than Trout Boss, but the Dyna Tip still lays down nice. The TMF is a great Sulpher rod up here, but the 8 1/2-5 WT is the Staff of Moses on the Holy Water (Ausable).

The only Cortland line I've used is the peach colored stuff, not sure which model...and that's been awhile ago. I will try to find some...care to point me in a good direction to find a spool?

 

[mojo]

When Winston had their forum going, they had some info. on TMF's;

Blanks made by Fisher were made up to serial # 11,959

Loomis up to # 43,499 and then in house after that using the WT blank.

Very good information!

 

[sweetandsalt]

Did the Winston Forum happen to correlate in dates when the suppliers of their blanks changed? Loomis had made private label, built to spec product for LL Bean at one point too and they were very good rods (1990's). I still think a subtle front taper WF, not DT, line with a long rear taper would be better for this delicate TMF. It would facilitate its in close capabilities same as a DT but would not overload it at more medium distances where the #3.5 concept comes in.

Burk nailed it; if Winston would stick to sweet 8' and 8 1/2' WT's they would not get the depth of criticism they get from us technical types. Also they have to quit putting single coat globs of finish overlapping onto the blank on their thread wraps and go back to the old, careful, multi-coat technique. Can I mention they could spend some money and hire a great rod designer what with both Morgan and Bracket gone...

 

[mtbusman]

The only Cortland line I've used is the peach colored stuff, not sure which model...and that's been awhile ago. I will try to find some...care to point me in a good direction to find a spool?

You can still get it, I think . . . if what they are selling today as the 444 Classic is the same line. Here is a link for it from Cabelas: Cortland 444 Classic Fly Line : Cabela's

I'm not recommending you buy it from Cabelas or any other particular retailer, but I skimmed through the customer reviews -- one reviewer claims that this line is a continuation of the classic Cortland peach colored lines. And, you can get it in double taper. Several reviewers were using this line with their cane rods, which is also a good sign. One another website, I read similar reviews. Just google it and you'll get a long list of online retailers who carry it. Who knows, your local fly shop might even be getting some of these lines back in stock. (I believe in buying local when I can.)

All this said . . . there are some other great lines out there you can get in a DT that will cast well with this rod. Just try to stay with a double taper and look for a line designed for delicate presentations. Personally, I have an older SA Trout Stalker (before they went textured with the line) in a DT4F that casts great with my Winston IM6 nine foot four weight. But if you want to go "old school" the Cortland Classic 444 would be a line to try.

 

[burk48237]

The only Cortland line I've used is the peach colored stuff, not sure which model...and that's been awhile ago. I will try to find some...care to point me in a good direction to find a spool?

I don't know the NW at all. I'd email Cortland if your want to buy local.

 

[labtrout]

Did the Winston Forum happen to correlate in dates when the suppliers of their blanks changed?

Did Loomis ever make anything as slow as IM6?
Fisher was the only one I've heard made blanks other than Winston. At least when it came to production rods.

I have two IM6 Winston rods -an 8'6" 5-weight and 7'6" 4-weight, both in three-piece - and was informed by Winston that the blanks were made by Loomis. I bought the first in 1993 and the second in 1994. The serial numbers are in the 38,XXX to 42,XXX range, respectively.

Generally, rods that were made of "original graphite", from the 1980s to about 1991, were made by Fisher. Those marked "IM6", from 1987 to about 1994, were made by Loomis. Winston started rolling their own blanks in 1994, beginning with serial #43,500 and higher. At first they were still designated as IM6, then later changed to WT in the early 2000s. Exceptions might occur if you custom-ordered a rod and they had an older blank hanging around. For example, I custom-ordered my first Winston, an 8-foot 5-weight made of original graphite, in 1992, and it had serial number 21,XXX. From my old Winston catalogs, you can see that customers could choose between IM6 (Loomis blank) or original graphite (Fisher blank) during the years 1987-1992.

Hope that helps. I also was a regular participant on the old Winston Forum, a great resource for green-stick users.

By the way, I prefer Triangle Taper lines on my IM6 Winstons and i think you would be happy with a TT4 on your TMF.

 

[mtbusman]

Hmm. My 9' 4 wt IM6 has a serial number in the 37,XXX range. I ordered it from Winston in Oct 1995. Mine has an uplocking reel seat without a hidden hood. When Winston first offered an uplocking seat, that's how they were made.

 

[sweetandsalt]

Coincidentally, Loomis IMX rods of the 80's also featured up-locking seats with the upper, machined hood exposed rather than recessed under the cork, which thy began doing with GLX. As I have said, I knew Gary Loomis did custom to spec private labeling for some other companies but until now, was un-aware Winston was one of them. In his day, no one built a better blank. There are a few in this forum who treasure their IMX's above all other rods, especially the 9'/#4, 5 & 6 which are understatedly handsome as well.

 

[labtrout]

Hmm. My 9' 4 wt IM6 has a serial number in the 37,XXX range. I ordered it from Winston in Oct 1995. Mine has an uplocking reel seat without a hidden hood. When Winston first offered an uplocking seat, that's how they were made.

Interesting. Both of mine are downlockers with maple spacers. Perhaps yours was made up custom with a blank rolled earlier. But, from what I was told by Winston, yours is likely a Loomis blank.

At one point -- around 1998, I think -- I purchased a 9' 6-weight LT three-piece rod which also was an uplocker with exposed hood. I replaced it with a BIIX 6-weight when that line was introduced in 2004. I still fish the BIIX regularly, but wish I had kept the LT, which was fairly short-lived in a three-piece.

 

[spike2]

I liked the TT 4wt on mine
Dave

 

[wichaka]

Am not familiar with TT line...is that WF, DT, or?