Just bought a new NRX LP rod and a really like the feel of it but would like to try something different on it. I have a 5wt. Rio Gold but to me being a 1/2 size larger it wants to be too fast. I would like to try and slow it down some so I thought about finding a true 5wt. for it, or maybe some line with a little texture to it. Please tell me what you use and a line that I may find better than my Gold. Thanks, Barry.
New fly line for my G. Loomis NRX LP 9' 5wt. fly rod
- Thread starter abarryi
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sweetandsalt
Well-known member
OK, Barry. For reference I regularly fish NRX#5 and it is among my favorites. I have cast the LP#5 version on several occasions but prefer the standard model. You can't really change a rods action with line choice, you can over-line it and dull it or underline it and impair its ability to correctly load but optimally one strives to fish a line that brings out one's rods intrinsic qualities...this can differ to a degree by virtue of one's casting technique. But the medium fast excellent flex profile of LP is baked in the cake.
Secondly, RIO Gold is .4 above median grain weight for a #5 but still within the 5-weight spec. window and is my choice for NRX trout rods both original and LP. Its virtue is its ling head and long rear taper; NRX tends not to like short head line designs. In practice a too heavy line dulls a rod's responses by forcing it to flex deeper at a given distance and a lighter line, conversely, loads the rod less making it "feel" faster (and making you work harder).
However, NRX is fine with a "true weight" line as long as it is of the extended head and long rear taper type like Cortland Omni-Verse or SA Mastery Expert Distance Taper. A similar SA taper design is also available in textured versions like Amplitude and Wavelength Ultimate Trout though I prefer the quite original smooth version.
These are the kinds of questions I always cringe at on these forums... I cannot even count how many times I had a client show up with horribly matched gear because they read advice on forums like these and it wasn't always folks on the forums fault, often times the person asking the question doesn't know enough to ask the question properly and effectively... If they did understood what was going on, they wouldn't of had to ask a question...
1) Nobody here can help you, any attempt to do so is a joke... Not bashing anyone here or you at all, but this is true...
2) Going to a true to weight line, all things being equal, will not slow your rod down, theoretically with less mass to push, it will speed the recovery of your rods blank and thus allow you to create even more line speed...
Back to number one... the reason nobody can help you is this...
The amount of line you are typically trying to cast, will play a massive role with your decision as well as the typical length of your drift, the type of flies you are trying to fish, etc... We have not even touched on your skill level yet and whether or not you understand what is actually happening...
If you are taking a softer rod like the LP and trying to cast the whole head of that Rio Gold line, you are trying to cast the amount of weight that would define an 8 wt fly line. That is gonna dog any 5wt rod down, especially a softer one... The fact the Gold also has a lot of weight forward in the taper will make it feel heavier than a taper that doesn't... Which will aid in close up casting some, but takes away a lot of delicacy for dry fly fishing...
Textured lines wont slow a rod down some, they actually to an extent increase line speed, and make a line slightly easier to mend... Some folks hate the noise, I honestly don't even hear that noise anymore, but my selective hearing game is strong, just ask my girlfriend lol
All things being equal, if you are fishing dry flies, the SA Trout taper would be my first choice and would likely be what Loomis would have on that rod at a trade show, they typically have SA lines on their rods... It is a true to weight line and thus wouldn't dog you down so much when you have more line outside the tip, if that is your issue, like I said, without watching you fish, nobody can really tell you exactly what the issue is, if there is even one...
Don't take it personally, you could be a stellar caster, nobody knows, but you should take all these things into account when choosing a fly line...
If you are just starting out fly fishing, the best advice I could give is go see a good casting instructor and let him diagnose the issue, could save you a lot of money, time and head aches down the road...
Thanks guys for responding. I've spent most of my fly fishing life using bamboo rods with double taper lines so going to a faster taper and much lighter rod is a little different. I will check with some friends to see if they have some of the lines mentioned and plan on taking a lesson from the shop I bought the rod. I love the rod and like the Rio Gold but also would like to try something that maybe better for my casting style. Thanks again, Barry.
That is a huge change to make!
Why not try one of your DT lines on that rod and see what you think?
You are definitely gonna have to adjust your casting stroke to be shorter and slightly more abrupt, a casting instructor could help with that for sure. After that, you may love that Gold line on your rod. Like I said, none of us here can tell you for sure and simply spending money on more lines, while good for line companies, may not even be necessary...
Good luck!
Why not try one of your DT lines on that rod and see what you think?
You are definitely gonna have to adjust your casting stroke to be shorter and slightly more abrupt, a casting instructor could help with that for sure. After that, you may love that Gold line on your rod. Like I said, none of us here can tell you for sure and simply spending money on more lines, while good for line companies, may not even be necessary...
Good luck!
pnc
Well-known member
Questions never make me cringe. Proclamations as to whats best do.
Heavier lines being larger in diameter. Are more wind resistant. This pluse pulling more weight behind. Line is going no place faster.
Lines others use are usually those they found fit their casting style best. From what lines they have tried.
Sounds like adjusting to stroke speed. Take your time & try lines you jave. Learning to throw any line with a given rod will never hurt you in the long run.
....... pc
Heavier lines being larger in diameter. Are more wind resistant. This pluse pulling more weight behind. Line is going no place faster.
Lines others use are usually those they found fit their casting style best. From what lines they have tried.
Sounds like adjusting to stroke speed. Take your time & try lines you jave. Learning to throw any line with a given rod will never hurt you in the long run.
....... pc
If it works, just get it! I have that line on my Sage Method 9' 6 and Sage X 597 and it works great.
One of the Rio guys told me that this and the Perception were the "sleeper" lines which are great but not heavily advertised.
sweetandsalt
Well-known member
This line has a taper that is Wullf TT or RIO LT WF like...a very long and attenuated front taper. Its head weight (34') is a whopping 200 grains compare to 140 AFTM standard for a #5 and the Gold's 146. In fairness I have never fished nor cast one but that is a heap of mass for dry fly fishing. If I, and a great casting friend of mine so recommends, wanted a line of such elongated front taper design (I don't) I would check out SA's 140 grain VPT.
akos75
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The Single Handed Spey is probably the best trout line Rio produces. It is very similar to the Barrio SLX. It works just as great for overhead casts as for speys and rolls.
Yes, it is heavy (although 200 grain is for the whole head, not the first 30') but the triangle tapers behave very differently than normal lines: rods that work best with AFTMA conform lines like the SA Expert Distance or the Trout work just as great with the Single Handed Spey.
It is nothing like the Rio LT, which feel very heavy, the SHS does not. I wouldn't recommend the SA VPT either, it looks good on paper but it has some design flaw, the 2nd third of the head feels too light, the line has no dynamics at all (at least for me, but I have a similar problem with the Gold too, so probably it is just me).
I use the SHS for dry fly fishing too, also with very small flies (16-20). It is my favourite all round trout line along with the redesigned SA Trout.
Yes, it is heavy (although 200 grain is for the whole head, not the first 30') but the triangle tapers behave very differently than normal lines: rods that work best with AFTMA conform lines like the SA Expert Distance or the Trout work just as great with the Single Handed Spey.
It is nothing like the Rio LT, which feel very heavy, the SHS does not. I wouldn't recommend the SA VPT either, it looks good on paper but it has some design flaw, the 2nd third of the head feels too light, the line has no dynamics at all (at least for me, but I have a similar problem with the Gold too, so probably it is just me).
I use the SHS for dry fly fishing too, also with very small flies (16-20). It is my favourite all round trout line along with the redesigned SA Trout.
Thanks for all the replies. I did purchase the Rio Single Handed Spey line and also tried a 409 brand double tapered fly line and it worked very well also. I am going to tru a friends Rio Grand tomorrow to see how well it works. So far the only one I that seems weak is the Rio Gold.
sweetandsalt
Well-known member
I have not sampled RIO's SHS nor SA's VPT as I tend not to like the long attenuated "Triangle Taper' style lines. And the head length for that 200 gr. weight is 34'...as I respect akos's opinions though, I will try to cast a SHS when I get the opportunity (I make a practice of switching and trying my friends lines on my rods and mine on theirs...a fine way of informing yourself without buying everything). Without hanging with and observing the casting technique of the OP, I can only suspect his penchant for liking the "feel" of heavier lines on his LP stems from his long familiarity fishing cane. Bamboo rods have proportionately significantly more mass than graphite which is pleasantly felt during casting. This mass contributes substantially to many anglers sense of rod load. In graphite the sensation of rod mass is greatly reduced and the feel of the loaded line mass is more palpable. It is my view, an I welcome akos's opinion on this matter too, that this perceptual divergence between cane and fiberglass too vs. lighter and inherently quicker recovering graphite designs contributes to the fundamental issues many anglers, switching from one to another, experience in optimizing line selection. Oh, and RIO Grand is a full size overweight and even a true weight DT, once more than 30' are extended out the tip-top, adds extra mass very rapidly, the whole conceptual tendency to over-line in order to enhance "feel" is, in my experience, detrimental to performance. Focus on feeling the line's movement not the bending of the rod, observe your loop formation at all distances as an indicator of correct loading, NRX LP bends plenty in all the right places but communicates the load of the line more transparently.
brownbass
Well-known member
I cast and fished my new NRX LP with RIO Gold and am happy with it right now. I will still try other lines as I can, but have no compaints with the Gold currently. I know Anderson recomends the SA MPX line but he recomends that line on all of the rods that come to mind. I think that it may work but I am not sure if that would be the best line for the NRX.
Bill
Bill
I've fished/cast the VPT and Gold extensively. I like VPT alot, it's kind of the reverse of Gold. Long front taper. I prefer Gold though because it allows me to dump more energy into the leader with the shorter front taper. This way I can extend my leader for more stealth.
You'll find both are good for distance and facilitate controlled loops, both are good roll casters, gold has a bit more punch and VPT is a bit more subtle on delivery
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
You'll find both are good for distance and facilitate controlled loops, both are good roll casters, gold has a bit more punch and VPT is a bit more subtle on delivery
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
brownbass
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S&S, what would you think of the newer Cortland Omniverse on the LP?
akos75
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Lines are not easy to understand (for me at least). It is not only about mass, but how it is distributed. Also, the load on the rod does not increase linearly as you carry more and more line. My knowledge about physics is limited, but accelerating something that flies in the air is very different from lifting a mass, so double the fly line in the air does not automatically puts double the load on the rod tip (or maybe it does, if anyone here is a physics expert please correct me). As you carry more and more line the rod tip moves on a longer path so I guess the force needed to accelerate the line is distributed on this longer path.
Theoretically either the Rio SHS or the Barrio SLX should work on rods that are true to weight. But they do, they feel slightly heavy but nothing like they should. I think as most of the mass of the head is close to the tip of the fly rod it behaves differently. If someone would cut off the head and attach it to the running line backwards I think it would be very unpleasant to cast and would overload the rod despite the fact that the mass of the head would not change at all.
moucheur2003
Well-known member
A lighter line will make the rod feel faster, not slower. A heavier line will dampen the action, but at the cost of some distance. If a 5 1/2 weight WF line feels too fast, either get used to a faster casting stroke (you may come to like it) or cast something a little heavier, such as a DT 5 or long belly WF 5 (which will still be in the 5 weight range for the first 30 feet, but will be heavier if you are casting more line), or maybe even move up to a 6. Modern graphite rods can handle a range of line weights, and Loomis tapers in particular are designed to be able to cast a line weight up or down from the rating.
sweetandsalt
Well-known member
You can't really change a rod's action by altering line mass up or down but you can change the point in the taper that is responding to line mass/acceleration. Optimal line rating is what brings the most benefit out of the rod's design at varied distances. In this specific instance I suspect it is a matter of adaptation. If one is accustomed to slower, heavier bamboo rods, going to graphite, even one with the smooth progressiveness of NRX LP, involves malleability of casting stroke to reinterpret where and how your fly is going. I do not expect the 6 grain difference in 30' of line between similarly tapered Gold and SA Trout is going to impact the feel of this rod substantially. I do think practicing casting it with varied power and stroke length input and observing the results will inform the OP what if any benefits his new rod may provide him in his fishing.
The LP casts well with Scientific Anglers Trout taper from Mastery, Amplitude, or Smooth Amplitude families.
The concept of light presentation is accuracy and delicacy when presenting dry flies and lightweight or non-weighted nymphs to finicky trout.
If you plan to use the rod more as an all-around trout slayer with larger indicators, split shot and multiple flies, the half-size heavier and more aggressive front taper of the MPX will turn heavier flies over easier but is less a joy to cast in LP scenarios.
MPX will load the rod deeper down and cast further. So, one fly line might be a better tool for the job depending on your fishing.
The concept of light presentation is accuracy and delicacy when presenting dry flies and lightweight or non-weighted nymphs to finicky trout.
If you plan to use the rod more as an all-around trout slayer with larger indicators, split shot and multiple flies, the half-size heavier and more aggressive front taper of the MPX will turn heavier flies over easier but is less a joy to cast in LP scenarios.
MPX will load the rod deeper down and cast further. So, one fly line might be a better tool for the job depending on your fishing.