Backing to Fly Line Connection

[sweetandsalt]

I have two priorities in attaching backing to fly line; one is for it to be as failure proof as possible and two, I favor interchangeability so I can wind off one line and mount another. Therefore, I loop the backing to the line's factory welded rear loop. Can a welded loop fail; rarely but it can occasionally split along the thermo-chemical bonding. So, I reinforce the double line portion of the loop mechanically with a multi-turn Nail Knot of 20# Fluoro tippet which I lightly coat with UV curing adhesive to smooth and seal.

For the backing loop in either Dacron or Gel-Spun I employ a large Bimini Twist for its combination of strength, elegance and low profile smoothness. The smaller diameter of backing relative to fly line can potently cut into the coating of the welded loop so I double it via a Surgeons Loop tied by doubling back the large loop of the Bimini. I seal this knot with UV adhesive too.

I always have an empty fly line plastic spool in my duffel permitting easy winding off of the mounted line for lop-to-loop exchange with another. For example, I have just mounted 50# Gel-Spun backing on my new Ross Evo R/S 7-8 with an SA Amplitude Bonefish #8. I look forward to fishing this new line a lot but suppose I find its texturing an issue...I can easily wind it off and loop on a smooth finished line. I plan on fishing three different lines on this reel in the course of an upcoming trip.

Whether, in this instance, bonefishing or with a lighter outfit, trout fishing soon too, I want my backing to line interface to be as strong as possible as one never knows what one might hook.

 

[falcon53]

I like line interchangeability via loops on both the fly line and backing. The only issue is keeping track of which lines are spooled and which are on the reels (manufacturers labels are a big help). I keep a notebook of lines. One could probably loop the backing with a double surgeons in many freshwater situations however I always use the Bimini especially in salt.
Adding the double surgeons knot after the Bimini seems like a good idea I thought about the potential cutting problem and was thinking of a way to reinforce the connection with some other material... just never got around to it.

Is Rio reinforcing their loops on certain fly lines?

I like the Evo RS reels alot ( looked at them at the Edison show). I have the Evo R 7/8 and along with my Allen Omega 2 they are my favorite freshwater reels. I still favor the Evo R due to its design, configuration and backing capacity. I will need another salt sized reel and I am looking at the Evo RS models along with the Allen Omega in saltwater size. Allen has a 20% sales quite frequently and that may influence my decision. However that Evo RS is sweet!

let us know how the Evo RS performs on your next trip.

 

[sweetandsalt]

falcon, I keep a Line - Reel Log in my Documents. Whenever I switch lines I update the Log with the model, line weight and date. When I wind a line onto a plastic spool, I write on it the appropriate data.

 

[pnc]

For years and still using loops. Though now perhaps out of habit. I do on occasion switch lines on reels. But changing reels is easier & faster. And switching rods even easier. Yea, I'm getting lazy.

I think every salt reel I have has gel spun backing. Unless I missed one. 50 lb, 60 on one reel. Bimini's all to connect to fly line. Doubling back line to make double loop or 4 strands to tie in another case. Is more regular on my larger reels. Reels I don't or rarely see backing on. Depends on my mood at time.
On the other hand reels with backing that will play a part are all double loops. As said surgeons after bimini.
I also do this in mono. Light tippet to bite or shock tippet. Cut loops and Albright to shock. 4 strand reference before.
Back to the backing ....... Many of late want to use their own equipment nowdays. Even though with a guide and everything necessary prepared. And many go home with the same in common. A bimini with dbl surgeons tied by guide connecting to fly line. Most guides will strip off fly line to look at this connection. Cut off & retie so connection is what we speak of. Some guides do this whatever the case might be. Others that target specific fish or large fish do it regular.

........ pc

 

[myt1]

I just added this thread to my favorites list.

Although I'm thinkin' for trout it is a bit of a belt and suspenders way of doing things.

I tie a double surgeons in the backing with a large enough loop so I can pass a spool of flyline through the loop and attach the two with a loop to loop.

 

[duker]

I'm a simple guy (some would say simple-minded). I tie a triple surgeon's in my backing (always use 30 lb dacron except for 20 on my 6 weight reel) and loop that in the factory loop on the fly line. Like myth I make the loop large enough I can pass a spool of fly line through it. If there's no factory loop in the fly line I use an Albright Knot. All knots covered with Loon UV Knot goo or Aquaseal, whatever I have handy.

Scott

 

[dean_mt]

I just got a new spool for one reel and switched line between a couple others... at any rate, one of them had a big bimini twist in the backing that a certain shop in Craig, MT tied in. I loved it and looked up how to make that knot and put them in the two reels I was swapping out. I love the idea of being able to coil a line up and remove it through that big loop on the reel.

I love the look of that blue backing and white line!

Good luck out there SnS!

 

[steveid]

I have been using a bimini twist as well. I like how you doubled it up, and will re-do all of mine to use this method.

 

[sweetandsalt]

If mounting a line without a rear loop, I tie with either a 12+turn Albright or Nail knot a several foot long hank of 30# Dacron to it and twist a Bimini into that. Then loop to loop it to the existing Bimini in my standing backing. Why a Bimini instead of simply a Surgeon's Loop? Especially if I'm doubling back to make a big Surgeon's Loop anyway? This way the standing backing maintains near 100% of its tensile strength and the doubled back Surgeon's is stronger by virtue of being four strands.

Overkill for a trout outfit? I recall an incident fishing from a drift boat on the Henry's Fork's Box Canyon. Rough water with big midstream boulders. I hooked a fine big rainbow and, as we drifted to one side of a Suburban sized mass of Basalt, the fish decided to go the other way. Now, reel loudly protesting, instead of battling a fat rainbow I'm fighting a giant rock. My big, strong friend pulled the boat to the bank, threw out the anchor, grabbed my rod and waded upstream reeling like crazy. He lifted the line over the boulder and, with the fish well into the backing now, brought the rod back to me and remarkably, we landed the trout. Nothing broke...and that's the way I like it.

 

[pnc]

As with others loop in backing is big enough to pass spool. I try to keep dbl surgeons close to bimini. To keep as short as possible. If there is no loop on line. I fold back & whip finish so there is. If line comes with loop. I cut it off, fold back & whip finish. So there is a loop that has never been a problem.
Saw the phrase big bimini used. Hope thats not literal. Biminis are sleek low profile knots.
Yes it's probably overkill for trout. But if gel-spun is used doubling loop is smart way to go. Dacron too.

........... pc

 

[e caster]

sweetandsalt,

Backing loop: pass twice through rear loop of fly line.

e c



addendum: Factory fly line loops get two gel-spun (30-45#) nail knots (coated) for security.

 

[sweetandsalt]

sweetandsalt,

Backing loop: pass twice through rear loop of fly line. e c addendum: Factory fly line loops get two gel-spun (30-45#) nail knots (coated) for security.

I'm not the only rigging nut...and this guy is my buddy but we have never discussed rigging.

pnc, A "big Bimini" refers to the length of the loop not the 50 twist knot itself. And e c, I'm sure gel-spun would work but I prefer 20# Fluoro for the mechanical re-enforcement, 12 to 15 turn Nail Knot over the doubled portion of the factory weld as I feel it compresses the line without cutting the coating optimally. Incidentally, RIO claims that the re-enforced factory weld they perform on their premium lines like Flats Pro tests stronger than the line itself.

 

[boisker]

I don’t set mine up so as to be quick to change as it’s not something I need, I only change them if I am ditching the line..
So on my usual U.K. trout set up I just do an Albright knot, i’m never gonna see the backing so it’s a smooth enough transition.
When I went to NZ and was fishing where there was a chance (albeit very small) I could get spooled to the backing I used a needle knot.

 

[e caster]

You may find the gel-spun nail knot reinforcements seat lower and flatter than mono (nylon or fluoro).

As for trout backing connections: It appears that mine change according to the moon phases...

I have tried many. Most work fine. The quickest and easiest IMO is a simple Duncan (with Dacron 20 or 30#). A recent find is to tie two Duncans - tie the first down low to fly line end making sure to leave a long tag of dacron. Using tag, tie a second Duncan above first.

When making a loop to rear of trout fly line, I simply fold over line and tie two nail knots as binders. Coat to liking. My backing loop is a Surgeon's, with plenty of lasso width to pass reel, spool, or fly line spool, through twice.

YMMV, to some degree

 

[e caster]

...... . ..... .

 

[pnc]

Yeeeee......... 50 turns would make for a long knot. 20 is the most I count. Started with 100 & 200 lb test mono offshore. Now down to 10lb. 20 is the number I was taught no matter line size. It's always worked for me.
Half hitches used to lock bimini is the only variable for me. After one hitch I use a brass tube to make a cross between an Albright & nail knot. This is something I've started doing since fly fishing and pre-tying tippets.

....... pc

 

[sweetandsalt]

pnc, I'm talking backing not leader material here, may I refer you to my initial illustration above. I use a 6 turn lock knot to finish the Bimini (after setting it with a half hitch) but I like your idea of a nail knot.

e c, I'm sure a gel-spun nail knot would sit flatter than a thicker mono one.

 

[osseous]

Well, realistically there is likely to be one or more weak link "upstream" of this connection for most of the fishing we do with a flyrod.... most. For many years flylines were built on fairly weak dacron cores, for instance- and provided a limiting factor all by themselves. But then again, there is great satisfaction to be found in a job well done. In the pondering and daydreaming that can be done while rigging for an upcoming trip. Much like flytying, rigging time and research and learning of a new knot can bring us into that frame of mind that transports us just a bit closer to the thing itself. Knock (or is it "knot"?) yourself out!

Gelspun requires extra time and attention- it can be confounding stuff when it comes to getting a knot to hold- or not cut through whatever it is joined to.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[camelbrass]

Typically on 10wt and under I use a Bimini large enough to pass the spool through connected to the loop on the fly line with a single catspaw. On my 12wt fly lines I always cut the loops off and replace them with braided loops which I triple nail knot down onto the fly line, although on the trip I just returned from we had a couple of braided loops fail so starting to look into Kevlar for the loops. I use a double Bimini with a double catspaw. I only use braided line for backing, 50/60lb for 9 and 10wts, 90/100lb for 12wt.

S and S I used the Amplitude Bonefish on my 9wt for the trip. Nice line and although it is textured it wasn’t too noisy and didn’t seem to spook the bones. It shoots well and matched the T and T Excocett nicely.

Regards,


Trevor

 

[sweetandsalt]

camelbrass, I know of no testing but suspect blind spliced braided nylon loops may not be as strong as securely looped fly line...re-enforced factory or nail knotted self looped. I think I may have commented above that RIO claims to have tested the new loops they fashon on the premium lines like Flats Pro to be stronger than the linme itself. One reason they have been slow to introduce saltwater none-stretch core lines is their testing suggested the InTouch freshwater core lines may not be as strong as they want for the kind of fishing men like you do.

I am going to fish an SA Amplitude Bonefish on Stickman T8 next week and Cortland Tropic Plus AP (monocore) on Exocett #7.