10WT Line for Roosters in Cabo

[baconcrusader]

I'm squeezing in a few days this coming June to chase Rooster Fish from the beach in Cabo. All advice points to a 10wt, which I need to buy and practice with. I've narrowed it down to a NRX or a Sage Salt HD [leaning towards the Salt HD as I loved my old and sold RPLXi 6,7,8 WT's]. This will be my first 10WT, and I've read a lot of opinions, and watched a ton of videos on both them and rooster fishing, so I think I'm pretty solid on a 10WT.

My question is, with the 1/2 line over, full line weight over BS going on with the line manufacturers, do I buy a size under as I'm a competent caster and do not need to over-line my rods. Specifically, the Rio Flat's Pro has my attention, but I understand it's a +1 line weight. Would I be best off buying a 9WT RFP line? I was leaning towards the Rio Bonefish based off of a lot of comments on this forum, but it tops out at 9Wt... I'm pretty dedicated to Rio from a long past trout fishing their lines for +10 years, but will be open if someone has something specific.

I'm in AZ, so my parking lot casting options are limited, and while I would gladly buy a recommended line based on the opinion from an experienced person here, I hate to just start buying saltwater specific lines trying to sort it out by trial and error.

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[jr spey]

There's a common misconception that manufacturers do this due to caster's incompetence. It normally has to do with the taper. A 10 weight rod will cast a 10 weight Outbound Short line just fine, even though it's more than three line weights over. If you choose to use it like a long tapered line you may find multiple false casts an issue. One thing you'll find, or have already found if you've watched a lot of video, is that this is a very quick game. Being able to cast almost instantly is almost routine. You don't want a long tapered line that will take two or three false cast to get your line extended. A really good line is likely the Airflo Sniper 10 weight. One backcast, or a Belgian cast and let it rip. The other thing, have you considered a two-handed overhead rod? I didn't have one when I was down there, but having used one in many other situations since then I sure wish I had it. Not a switch rod, but one of the four or five two-handed overhead rods, sometimes called Surf rods that are out there. These days, there are even a couple of them that are 9' in length, instead of 11' or 12', that musky fishers love.

 

[baconcrusader]

Your point makes sense, and I didn't consider that --just relying on my past experience, and I have NO experience with this style/type of fishing. Thank you for that!

Interesting on the two-handed overhead rods, never even heard of such a thing --I immediately thought Switch Rod, but you corrected that. There seems to be a pretty dedicated, but small, Airflo saltwater following. I will check out the Sniper taper. Thank you again!

So it sounds you've been there, done that. Can I thread drift a tad and ask what your rig looked like, and if anything you'd change going back [line, rod weight, leader length/weight, etc]?

Thank you for the help! There's not a lot of info out there.

 

[jr spey]

Leaving right now for a fishing club meeting (at--10*F). Will answer this later tonight or tomorrow morning.

 

[bonefish41]

Have never done "running down the man" for the Rooster...just salt guided skiff...too old to run on the beach. But I've seen it done during conventional gear fishing East Cape...usually run in an ATV looking for surface signs then run for the quick shoot...If you using a guide ask about lines...what I recall it's quick action sometimes without or with attached waist stripping basket ...would agree from what I observed not allot of time for long belly false casting...If it's a 10 wt and Sage I've assemble all blanks starting with RP+ ending Method never had a Sage that I didn't like...I would suggest a used Xi3 or Xi2 or closeout Salt...my present go to rod is my 10 wt TCX for Permit but I would cast to anything with it if it's in my hand and fish shows up...and have

 

[bonefish41]

Forgot to add...check out sale fly lines on Sierra Trading Post or Ebay or used lines Ebay particularly those lines where the MFG provides both head length and grain weight for the first 30 feet so you can compare sames for casting...heavier(first 30 feet) is good for a one cycle stroke and cast/shoot...deep discount 25-35 bucks lines get three for price of one full retail for trial...

 

[baconcrusader]

Thanks for the comments and experience Bonefish. I may try and get over to the coast [San Diego] and find a shop that has a decent Sage saltwater rod assortment. I had a TCR waaaaaay back, and loved it. The new Igniter may deserve a hard look.

 

[osseous]

Trident just released a video on Roosters in Baja- experienced dude uses a 2 hander to catch a beast

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[jr spey]

Your point makes sense, and I didn't consider that --just relying on my past experience, and I have NO experience with this style/type of fishing. Thank you for that!

Interesting on the two-handed overhead rods, never even heard of such a thing --I immediately thought Switch Rod, but you corrected that. There seems to be a pretty dedicated, but small, Airflo saltwater following. I will check out the Sniper taper. Thank you again!



So it sounds you've been there, done that. Can I thread drift a tad and ask what your rig looked like, and if anything you'd change going back [line, rod weight, leader length/weight, etc]?

Thank you for the help! There's not a lot of info out there.

It's been a few years, but I believe my setup was a Loomis GLX Cross Current 10 weight with the original Rio Outbound Short line. If I were going back today I'd bring a Beulah Opal 9/10 2-handed overhead rod or a Loomis Cross Current two-handed overhead 10 weight and probably the Beulah Serrum line of 500gr or even 550gr line. The Sniper doesn't come that heavy or I'd use that. The leaders we used were very simple. I think it was just two pieces of mono. Roosterfish are fast but not particularly shy so using 20# FC would probably be best and even one single piece of 6-8' would probably be sufficient.

Those two-handed rods I mentioned are both 11' and I think that would be perfect. The Beulah was designed specifically for that type of fishing as the owner of Beulah also owns a fishing camp that specializes in roosterfish. In fact, if you go on their website you'll see a fairly large photo of James' wife with her women's world record fly caught rooster. If you stay with SH rods the Sage rods mentioned should work fine, and the GLX Cross Current I think is still in the Loomis lineup. I like the NRX, but I'm not certain it's as appropriate for this as it might be for permit or something along those lines.

The two-handed overhead 9' rods are even more obscure. Serious musky guys can tell you about them, but that's about it. One exception is the Loomis Long-handle Predator which I think is in the Pro4X series which is being discontinued. It's a 9' DH rod. I don't like those for musky, but they might work fine for roosters. Otherwise you're talking companies like Limit Creek and a few others. Meiser makes a rod called the 909 which is a 9'9" 2-handed and would work quite nicely in the heavier line weights, but it's pricey. I'll get more specific on 9' two-handers if you want, just let me know...

 

[acorad]

YouTube
enjoy

 

[flav]

My experience with roosters in Cabo is limited to a couple mornings on the beach and a few hours teasing up fish from a panga. I've had a few shots and follows, but no hookups. The roosters appear out of nowhere, then disappear just as quickly. You have to be fast, one false cast, cast, then strip like crazy. A heavy short head line like the tropical outbound short (425 grains) is nice on a 10 weight. Consider an intermediate for longer, easier casts, but you're stripping so fast a sinking line isn't a big advantage over a floater except in the casting department.
The learning curve is very steep with roosters. It would be worthwhile seeing if you can find a way to get out on a boat, even if it's only for a half day. Pangas can be had for fairly cheap, the problem is finding a captain who knows anything about fly fishing.

 

[baconcrusader]

It's been a few years, but I believe my setup was a Loomis GLX Cross Current 10 weight with the original Rio Outbound Short line. If I were going back today I'd bring a Beulah Opal 9/10 2-handed overhead rod or a Loomis Cross Current two-handed overhead 10 weight and probably the Beulah Serrum line of 500gr or even 550gr line. The Sniper doesn't come that heavy or I'd use that. The leaders we used were very simple. I think it was just two pieces of mono. Roosterfish are fast but not particularly shy so using 20# FC would probably be best and even one single piece of 6-8' would probably be sufficient.

Those two-handed rods I mentioned are both 11' and I think that would be perfect. The Beulah was designed specifically for that type of fishing as the owner of Beulah also owns a fishing camp that specializes in roosterfish. In fact, if you go on their website you'll see a fairly large photo of James' wife with her women's world record fly caught rooster. If you stay with SH rods the Sage rods mentioned should work fine, and the GLX Cross Current I think is still in the Loomis lineup. I like the NRX, but I'm not certain it's as appropriate for this as it might be for permit or something along those lines.

The two-handed overhead 9' rods are even more obscure. Serious musky guys can tell you about them, but that's about it. One exception is the Loomis Long-handle Predator which I think is in the Pro4X series which is being discontinued. It's a 9' DH rod. I don't like those for musky, but they might work fine for roosters. Otherwise you're talking companies like Limit Creek and a few others. Meiser makes a rod called the 909 which is a 9'9" 2-handed and would work quite nicely in the heavier line weights, but it's pricey. I'll get more specific on 9' two-handers if you want, just let me know...

Thank you so much! That's a lot to digest, and I will be doing a lot of research over the weekend on these rods.

 

[jr spey]

I've discovered that the Loomis version of its two-handed surf rod is not GLX Cross Current, but simply Cross Current and they are 11'3" long. I believe they are also discontinued as I can't locate them anywhere on the GLoomis website. I'm betting the Beulah Opal is probably a better rod anyway. If you watched the video above, that's who booked my trip. He wasn't my guide, but was the owner of Baja Angler and still is. If you notice on his cast to the big fish, he's casting two-handed. Since Sage was one of the sponsors of the video I'm guessing he was using a Method Switch rod which is one of the very few switch rods that are stiff and fast enough to serve for this purpose. It's also possible he was using an Opal and just ignored that he wasn't using a sponsor's rod. Anyway, good video to watch. I had a note here to be sure to mention bringing an intermediate line, and I noticed someone else has already brought that up. The truth is that a floating line will be almost useless. Intermediates or very slow sinking lines are preferable. The fish might be only 10-20" below the surface, but your fly won't get down to it nearly quickly enough with a floater. I was thinking last night after I sent the last post that if I were going to do this again, I would probably bring the Opal two-handed 9/10 and the Limit Creek Force 1 and a line(s) about 500gr. You noticed on the video the need for a reel with plenty of backing. A minimum amount of backing would be 400yds. 50# gel spun is probably the best bet, but I put (like Grant did) some Dacron backing of a different color to serve as a warning that you're running out of backing and also to prevent the gel spun from spinning on the arbor. That other two-handed 9' rod I mentioned earlier is, in fact, a one-piece rod so although it's a very nice stick, it would be almost useless for what you want to do. To get the 500gr in a line, there's the Beulah Serrum line and there's also a Titan line by SA that'll have the right taper and be heavy enough.

 

[osseous]

Anytime there is surf, a floating line is a bad idea. The wave action disconnects you from your fly, and you can't feel the take or effectively set the hook with a strip strike. You end up lifting the rod, which does not provide enough power to drive the hook home reliably- the dreaded "trout set"!

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[jr spey]

Anytime there is surf, a floating line is a bad idea. The wave action disconnects you from your fly, and you can't feel the take or effectively set the hook with a strip strike. You end up lifting the rod, which does not provide enough power to drive the hook home reliably- the dreaded "trout set"!

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I haven't caught that many roosters, but I can tell you that when I have I didn't set the hook at all. The fish hits the fly so hard that he sets it himself. Probably not every time, but often. It's like a drive-by shooting. It actually seems faster than what was shown on the Trident video.

 

[osseous]

I can see that- kind of like GTs. But losing touch with the fly also impacts your ability to work the fly and impart action. With an intermediate, the wave action doesn't affect your connection with the fly. It is more difficult to pick up and recast- so you want to make a good first shot!-

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[baconcrusader]

On the rod Grant is fishing with the big rooster towards the end, this is a screen cap of the rod markings. Looks like some sort of TFO. You guys have me leaning towards a 2-handed overhead rod, as it seems as unusual as rooster fishing with a fly from the beach, and probably a perfect fit.



and from the comments section:

 

[jr spey]

On the rod Grant is fishing with the big rooster towards the end, this is a screen cap of the rod markings. Looks like some sort of TFO. You guys have me leaning towards a 2-handed overhead rod, as it seems as unusual as rooster fishing with a fly from the beach, and probably a perfect fit.

View attachment 15144

and from the comments section:

View attachment 15145

I've been a TFO dealer for almost 20 years and I have no idea what rod that is. Most of the stuff with Lefty's name on it is nice casting, but not particularly strong as far as lifting power. The one rod TFO made for surf fishing was the Pandium, but that would have had Nick Curcione's name it. Their new switch rod, the Axiom II is something like the TCX/Method switches, but that rod just came out and also doesn't have Lefty's name on it. I'm guessing it's a TiCr or TiCrX that's a single handed rod with a fighting butt that could be used as a rear grip. The problem is that earlier shots showed a foregrip that was of the length of a switch rod or a two-handed overhead rod. It might have been a custom made rod, or a prototype that never made it to market. If anyone finds out which rod it is, I'd love to know...

 

[jr spey]

I watched that entire sequence with stop action and it is indeed a full two-handed rod. I didn't notice the long rear handle when I watched it the first time. I was working too hard try to watch his line disappear and to figure what reel he was using. I've looked through my catalog and there has never been a TFO Two-handed Lefty Kreh rod except for a spey rod series. So again I'll say it's either a prototype or a custom made rod. The people who might know at TFO are on the show circuit right now so I'm not likely going to be able to find out from them any time soon. CORRECTION: I went through the catalogs again and found the obvious. The famous 12x12 that was discontinued several years ago. That's actually a perfect rod for this type of fishing. 12 foot and 12 weight. Thomas and Thomas made a similar rod, but I believe it's also discontinued. If you can find either of them used they should be attractively priced and will work well. They actually came out before the two-handed over head craze got started in the Northeast for use on stripers in the surf. By the way, both of those rods are rated as if they were single handed, not as if they were two-handed which are line rated closer to how spey and switch rods are rated. In other words, you might not need a 500gr line to cast one of those. 400gr might be closer to what's desirable, or even a tad less.

 

[baconcrusader]

I watched that entire sequence with stop action and it is indeed a full two-handed rod. I didn't notice the long rear handle when I watched it the first time. I was working too hard try to watch his line disappear and to figure what reel he was using. I've looked through my catalog and there has never been a TFO Two-handed Lefty Kreh rod except for a spey rod series. So again I'll say it's either a prototype or a custom made rod. The people who might know at TFO are on the show circuit right now so I'm not likely going to be able to find out from them any time soon. CORRECTION: I went through the catalogs again and found the obvious. The famous 12x12 that was discontinued several years ago. That's actually a perfect rod for this type of fishing. 12 foot and 12 weight. Thomas and Thomas made a similar rod, but I believe it's also discontinued. If you can find either of them used they should be attractively priced and will work well. They actually came out before the two-handed over head craze got started in the Northeast for use on stripers in the surf. By the way, both of those rods are rated as if they were single handed, not as if they were two-handed which are line rated closer to how spey and switch rods are rated. In other words, you might not need a 500gr line to cast one of those. 400gr might be closer to what's desirable, or even a tad less.

AWESOME! Thank you for the detective work. Now the hunt begins...