"Dunkable" 8wt. Fly Reel?

[sneltyr]

I've been asking you all advice on 8wt. Reels for Reds/Specks & Bones. I've narrowed it down to the following:

I am attracted to the idea of a used Abel 3N or a used Tibor Everglades but am worried about the dunking. The Abel Super8 seems even less "dunkable" with all the porting. I know they are great reels but I am absolutely going to end up dunking them while wading. Not that I'm going to try to - it's just going to happen.

So the question is should I pick up a used Abel/Tibor or opt for a reel with a sealed drag. I'm pretty open to all sealed drag reels except Nautilus and Lamson (nothing personal just taste). No Hatch Finatic either as it and a spare spool are out of my price range.

- Colton Torrent
- Sage 1880 (on sale $79 at Cabelas). Bought one for my wife & it's nice and simple. Strong drag & really no place for sand or salt to go. Only problem is I can't find anyone online who had used it for Bonefish.
- Van Staal C-Vex
- Galvin T8
- Allen
Etc...

Thanks for any input.

 

[grouch]

Out of your list I'd go with the Galvan every day of the week. They are fantastic reels built like tanks without the weight. They have very smooth drags and great line capacity. If you need to have that pot sweetened, the Galvan as a company will crawl through shards of broken glass to fix any problem that may arise. They are a class act for sure. I'd have a couple but the wife says I can't own them all so I had to draw the line somewhere.

 

[stl_geoff]

I would go in order:

1. Galvan T8
2. Sage 1880
3. Allen Kracken

The Galvan is a really solid reel and I know lots of guides that use em and they really like em. I routinely see them bring dunked in the salt and causing no problems.

the Sage is a sage and its gonna work for a inexpensive option. The drag on them is sealed really well and have owning a couple Sage reels, they are nice and the drags are very smooth and strong.

If you are looking for sealed drags only, The Kracken is the only 100% sealed drag reel they offer currently. I know the Alpha III has a new drag and I think its based off the Kracken, but you'll need to verify that. They will answer if you ask em. I saw a Kracken in action and its a nice reel. The drag is really smooth and strong. I used my Alpha II in the salt and it doesn't have a sealed drag, so I made sure I cleaned it each day when I was done and I didn't have any problems with it.

 

[sweetandsalt]

sneltyr, You have asked for advise and it has been given. Are you looking for the best or the best bargain, new or ebay? If you are ruling out Nautilus NV and Hatch you are ruling out 2/3 of the reasonable sealed drag reels and not even mentioning Hardy Fortuna. Do you think all the world records set with Abels were with reels never dropped in the muck? Galvan Reels are terrific fresh water reels but you will never see one on a bonefish camp rod rack...you may see a Waterworks/Lamson due to their trout popularity but...they are the property of one-timers. As I have oft said, most reel designs are not suited to the arduous rigors of saltwater flats fishing and the ones that are are purpose built for this application.

Very few reel's designs are scalable from fresh to flats applications and I am not talking trough my long-billed hat...I have been plying Tropical and NorthEastern flats for pushing four decades.

 

[Sage & Abel]

If you're thinking of an Abel Big Game 3N it's a fine choice for an 8 weight. I use one on mine.

 

[adam maskew]

I have been using an Everglades QC as my only reel for nearly 10 years. Only fish salt, avg 60-80 days on the water, gets dunked in about half of the trips. A rinse, air dry and ready for next time. Only recently serviced the drag. Haven't got any corrosion although have collected a couple of small dings, small chips in the anodising and maybe some boat rash.

The only reel I converted was a Mako. I received one last year but still trot the everglades out regularly.

The Abel would be a fine choice as well just look at the condition when buying either second hand as it is easy to be disappointed with the finish/drag condition on second hand reels.

Buying new the Colton has been getting some good wraps. I've also been impressed with the TFO BVK reel.

You don't say whether it will have regular use or whether it is a couple of days a year. That will influence your choice as well.

Buy what the heart wants and save if you have too. The higher end reels from all manufacturers will last and yield a lower $/yr cost in the long run...

Adam

 

[sweetandsalt]

I haven't mentioned Mako sealed drag beauties because of their elite nature and I agree that a properly maintained Tibor, Abel or Islander is a long term value enhanced investment in your angling future. I occasionally encounter gentlemen that are fishing their original Seamaster for half a century and have no reason to change.

I brought a Florida-built, sealed drag, skeletonized, super large arbor reel I really like on a guides boat in Biscayne Bay and asked him what he thought of it. He said he could take his Tibor and pound my reel flat with it and his reel would still work fine.

 

[MoscaPescador]

I am attracted to the idea of a used Abel 3N or a used Tibor Everglades but am worried about the dunking. The Abel Super8 seems even less "dunkable" with all the porting. I know they are great reels but I am absolutely going to end up dunking them while wading. Not that I'm going to try to - it's just going to happen.

My Super 6 Large Arbor is my fall workhorse. During that time of year, it is being used for trophy trout and fall run steelhead. The reel gets dunked more times than I care for. It does not have any performance issues.

My old school Big Game 3N gets used mostly for warm water fishing mostly nowadays, but it sees saltwater from time to time. Like my Super 6, the reel has been dunked more times than I care for. Again, it has not had any performance issues.

Abel Reels are very dependable. Consider them as the AK47 of the fly fishing reel industry. A simple rinse out and some regular maintenance will keep them fishing for years.

Dennis

 

[sneltyr]

Out of your list I'd go with the Galvan every day of the week. They are fantastic reels built like tanks without the weight. They have very smooth drags and great line capacity. If you need to have that pot sweetened, the Galvan as a company will crawl through shards of broken glass to fix any problem that may arise. They are a class act for sure. I'd have a couple but the wife says I can't own them all so I had to draw the line somewhere.

Thanks Grouch

You don't say whether it will have regular use or whether it is a couple of days a year. That will influence your choice as well.

Adam - Sorry it will be 2-3 times a year Max. That is until I can get all the teenagers grown up and out of the house I also have the Bowhunting wife to compete with!

Buy what the heart wants and save if you have too. The higher end reels from all manufacturers will last and yield a lower $/yr cost in the long run...

Very Good Point - This is usually what gets me in trouble

I haven't mentioned Mako sealed drag beauties because of their elite nature and I agree that a properly maintained Tibor, Abel or Islander is a long term value enhanced investment in your angling future. I occasionally encounter gentlemen that are fishing their original Seamaster for half a century and have no reason to change.

That would be an easy decision if I had the means.

I brought a Florida-built, sealed drag, skeletonized, super large arbor reel I really like on a guides boat in Biscayne Bay and asked him what he thought of it. He said he could take his Tibor and pound my reel flat with it and his reel would still work fine.

I love that reply!

I'm still driving myself nuts with all the options. I don't really have anything against Nautilus. I just have to get over loosing a hog rainbow on my guides Nautilus do to spool disengagement. It was a Black Nautilus (not sure which model) that was a little "gritty" and not sufficiently clicked in. The drag was also gritty and not smooth. Both probably due to lack of maintenance.
SweetandSalt - This would get to your comments on having a "Screw On" Spool as opposed to a spring loaded click on.

So I guess I'm open to a Nautilus - just can afford the NV (unless used).
Nothing against Lamsons in particular - I have fished them - they've just never appealed to me.

So 2-3 times a year and I don't want to buy another reel (Ever). So 2-3 times a year for 20-30 years. That will be a reel for me and my wife.

One thing that does concern me is the Spool Change. If I am out wading with the wife and we want to change lines for some reason I'd like it to be quick. This is the only thing that holds me back on getting a used Tibor Everglades or Abel 3n. Can't afford the Everglades QC.

I'm not sure if I need an extra line or spool for Redfish, Speckled Trout or Bonefish. i havent had anyone answer that question yet. If the answer is no then a used Everglades or Abel 3n may be the best choice.

 

[Sage & Abel]

I brought a Florida-built, sealed drag, skeletonized, super large arbor reel I really like on a guides boat in Biscayne Bay and asked him what he thought of it. He said he could take his Tibor and pound my reel flat with it and his reel would still work fine.

That made me laugh

 

[von behr]

My Abels have been dunked in saltwater many times. Water does not affect the performance of the drag, since it is cork creating friction against the flat aluminum underside of the spool. There's no room for water to get between the cork and the spool with the drag set properly. Cork naturally repels liquid, which is why it is used in wine bottles to seal in the good stuff.

There's also no porting around the face of the drag or underside of the spool to allow anything in there to interfere with the drag performance. This applies to both solid frame reels or ported reels.

If you get sand in your reel, it will only be between the frame and spool, which could happen on ANY reel. just dunk it and rinse the sand out, and then get back to the fish.

Abels are made of anodized aircraft-grade aluminum and stainless steel. There are no plastic parts and nothing for saltwater to ruin. They are purposely built to withstand years of use in tough conditions whether salt or fresh water.

Another reel that I rarely see mentioned is the Ross Momentum LT. I have the older version of the Momentum, and it performs great in the salt water as well.

Dunk away! It will not affect performance of a good quality reel that's built for the salt.

-VB

---------- Post added at 11:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:51 AM ----------

Abel reel deconstructed:

A lot has been said about the virtues of solid frames vs. ported frames and sealed drags vs. other types.

This should provide a visual of what's going on inside the cork drag of an Abel.

Essentially, solid frame or ported frame is a matter of cosmetic preference and weight more than anything else.

The drag itself is the same, and the surfaces at work with the drag are not affected by whether the reel is ported or solid.

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A sealed drag requires no maintenance. However, it also cannot be maintained by the user if something fails inside. The cork drag itself is sealed. Nothing can get between the cork and aluminum face when you're fishing, unless you introduce abrasive debris between the two when you have the reel apart for maintenance.

I primarily fish in the surf, so I am standing in beach sand and in just a couple of feet of water, so I am more likely to get sand in my reel than someone fishing offshore or inshore flats or bays. I've dunked my reels and they've landed in the sand many times. However, the sand cannot affect the drag operation itself, but can get between the spool and frame edges, which you will see and feel very quickly. Every fly reel is susceptible to this whether the drag is sealed or not.

A solid frame reel will not prevent grit from coming between the spool and frame if it lands in the sand.

I hope this helps provide a visual perspective of the simplicity of the inner workings of Abel Super Series reels. By the way, the bearings are sealed and contained within the hub of the spool.

Cheers,

-VB

 

[sneltyr]

von behr - Thank you very much for the internal photos of the Abel. That helps a lot to understand the drag.

 

[von behr]

von behr - Thank you very much for the internal photos of the Abel. That helps a lot to understand the drag.

My pleasure, sir. I'm glad to help.

-VB

 

[adam maskew]

One thing that does concern me is the Spool Change. If I am out wading with the wife and we want to change lines for some reason I'd like it to be quick. This is the only thing that holds me back on getting a used Tibor Everglades or Abel 3n. Can't afford the Everglades QC.

I'm not sure if I need an extra line or spool for Redfish, Speckled Trout or Bonefish. i havent had anyone answer that question yet. If the answer is no then a used Everglades or Abel 3n may be the best choice.

I used to think I would change lines regularly and that is why I got a QC and some time later a spare spool. I very rarely if ever change lines on the water as my water depth doesn't change radically in a session. I find myself very rarely changing between an Inter and floating or sinking in a session. Think about the fishing you'll do before you buy as you maybe better off with a cheap line winder.

Over time you will accumulate additional rods and reals that can remain in your collection as backups and be strung with different lines.

Good luck with the tough decision...

Adam

 

[grouch]

On my second trip out with my 7/8N I dropped it in the sand after it was good and wet. I was mortified. When I turned the spool it sounded like a cement mixer. The fix was simple, I just dunked it several times in the salt water and went on fishing like nothing ever happened. Before I left the beach for the long drive home, I loosened the drag knob out to the stop and rinsed it real good in the water fountain. This all happened around 2am on a new moon by the way. When I got home I did my usual post fishing rinse in the shower and set it off to dry. The next morning I took it apart to see how much sand was in it only to find the smallest bit in the grease of the pawl spring. I simple wipe down removed the last little bit. Needless to say I was very pleased with how fast I was back in the game and how well the reel performs in all conditions. When I bought the reel I wanted a classic that didn't dance to the current marketing hype. What I got was all that plus an actual real life hardcore reel that performs better than anything else I have owned in the toughest environments. Expensive yes, worth it, you bet you sweet cheeks.

Some may balk about the spool change process but in all the years I have fished not once have I ever needed too. I have had reels with spare spools loaded and ready to go just sit in their pouch year after year. I can't handle that sort of guilt so now even if I could get another spool and change it easily, I don't. Besides, it doesn't take that long to changes lines themselves.

 

[wjc]

VB,

Is the drag gear bearing a press fit, sealed bearing on that reel?

Thanks.

 

[sweetandsalt]

I virtually never change spools. I change lines on a reel by having a Bimini in my backing and a secure loop on the rear of each line. Simply wind off and on in my living room or camp with a plastic line spool and two pencils. As you are targeting bones/reds and I think you said squatique (spec. trout) you likely would have but one line; a tropical floater. SA, RIO and Airflo all make a fine line in this category and the brand and model best for you is not which is the best line but rather the best match for the rod you will be fishing.

 

[sneltyr]

As you are targeting bones/reds and I think you said squatique (spec. trout) you likely would have but one line; a tropical floater. SA, RIO and Airflo all make a fine line in this category and the brand and model best for you is not which is the best line but rather the best match for the rod you will be fishing.

S & S - I think you are right! Thanks for all your input and patience with me. All my thoughts on reels have been going through an evolution since I started asking questions.

I change lines on a reel by having a Bimini in my backing and a secure loop on the rear of each line. Simply wind off and on in my living room or camp with a plastic line spool and two pencils.

S&S - Can you "blow this up for me" so I can better understand? Maybe a picture if you have it. I love knots and would like to try it.

 

[wjc]

For some fishing, I change out spools depending on the conditions - mainly if whomever I'm fishing with has his own 12 wt or not. If he does, then I have two separate 12 weights set up.

Though it's nice to have quick change spools with the captive nut, it certainly is not necessary.

Since most of my fishing is done from a boat, there is almost zero chance to lose the draw bar nut, though I have an extra.

I change spools freqently enough that the little draw bar caps are in a shot glass in my cubboard. They are purely for show and irrelavent from a functional standpoint. In the picture below you can see the shiny spot in the middle of the drag knob. That's the end of the drawbar that I never put those little caps on.

That way I don't have to remove them when changing spools. So, since I don't have to mess with springs, end caps or any tool at all this is very nearly as fast as a quick change - taking maybe 20 seconds at most in tough conditions. All I do is spin the drag nut off, pull out the spool with draw bar intact within it, insert new spool (with drag bar already in it) and spinn the drag nut back on.

Though you cannot tell from the pictures, there is a glob of extra drag grease stuck to the inside of the reel frame.

The picture below shows the offset reel foot. This balances the reel perfectly so it hangs plumb under the rod handle. It also pushes the spool toward the wind side and makes it easier to level the line when retreiving backing and fly line.

As many have said, backup reels are important. And as a buddy of mine says, you could hammer most ported reels flat with a Tibor, and go right back to fishing.

My Tibor maintenance consists of a hose down, most days. Often even that doesn't get done since I like to sleep ocassionally. My Nautilus' reels get the same. Though I wouldn't intentionally submerge the Tibors, or set them in the sand (I set them in my hat on the beach), a quick dunking does not result in enough water intrusion into the space between solid spool and solid frame side that it gets into the drag gear bearing grease.

If I dropped the entire reel in salt water, I'd just pull off the spool and fill the frame with bottled water a couple times, sloshing it around to get rid of the salt. At some point after the end of tarpon season I'd clean out the thrust bearing and repack with new grease.

The reels to avoid for saltwater, especially, are those without the drag easily accessable without tools yet not totally waterproof. If you are comfortable with a ported frame, go for it. I prefer solid frames and solid frame-side spools with draw bar drags.

 

[sweetandsalt]

There is a thread under fly lines you can search about "welded loops" that many of the same commenters here contributed to. The up-shot was that welded loops as supplied by line manufacturers on most contemporary lines are about 80% the strength of the line (20 to 35 lb. test depending on core material) and can crack. They can be brought up to full+ strength by mechanical reinforcement; I tie a 12+ turn nail knot over the doubled portion of the loop when new and there are other valid approaches. The Bimini Twist is a standard knot among salts that can form a large loop that will fit over a spool of line and is not hard to tie with a little practice; there are many internet illustrations and videos depicting this and I tie one in the backing on every reel/spool I have so I can loop-to-loop fly lines on and off.

This image shows the nail knot reinforced loop and a double line Bimini to reduce smaller diameter line bite into the softer fly line coating.