Fly reel to best “balance” a 8’6 4wt Redington Trout?

[skel]

Fly reel to best “balance” a 8’6 4wt Redington Classic Trout?

It’s all in the title
Thank you kindly in advance for your suggestions.

 

[plecain]

Re: Fly reel to best “balance” a 8’6 4wt Redington Classic Trout?

Hang something like a bag of coins on the reel seat.
Add coins until the balance feels right for you.
Weigh the bag of coins.
Find a reel with that same weight. Most ads will tell you the weight of the reel that's for sale.

If you already have a reel that's close, but too light, you can add weight to the reel using lead roof flashing under the backing.
If it's too heavy, find another lighter one and try again.

 

[jayr]

Re: Fly reel to best “balance” a 8’6 4wt Redington Classic Trout?

I have several rods of that length and weight. Most of them weigh about the same.

The reel for me that balances them out is the older English Battenkill click pawl size 3/4.

 

[dillon]

Re: Fly reel to best “balance” a 8’6 4wt Redington Classic Trout?

Unfortunately, finding a reel that balances well with a particular rod is a matter of trial and error. The weight the manufacturer lists in the specs isn't always accurate and of course adding line and backing adds weight to the reel. For casting some people prefer a heavy reel and others light. A rod and reel should balance well when holding it by your side at arms length so the tip isn't constantly bobbing up or down when your looking for a rise. Its about comfort as much as how the outfit feels when casting. Mount your reel to your rod and if it doesn't balance well return it before you fish it and try again...

 

[silver creek]

Re: Fly reel to best “balance” a 8’6 4wt Redington Classic Trout?

It’s all in the title
Thank you kindly in advance for your suggestions.

Please explain what you are trying to accomplish.

Please humor me because rod/reel "balance" has been discussed numerous times and what you mean and the purpose is critical.

 

[skel]

Re: Fly reel to best “balance” a 8’6 4wt Redington Classic Trout?

“Its about comfort as much as how the outfit feels when casting.”


This is exactly what I’m looking for. A reel that you can forget once on the rod, that will not affect in a negative way the casting process, and maybe, will make the rod feel more pleasant than another reel of a different weight.

 

[skel]

Re: Fly reel to best “balance” a 8’6 4wt Redington Classic Trout?

Unfortunately, finding a reel that balances well with a particular rod is a matter of trial and error. The weight the manufacturer lists in the specs isn't always accurate and of course adding line and backing adds weight to the reel. For casting some people prefer a heavy reel and others light. A rod and reel should balance well when holding it by your side at arms length so the tip isn't constantly bobbing up or down when your looking for a rise. Its about comfort as much as how the outfit feels when casting. Mount your reel to your rod and if it doesn't balance well return it before you fish it and try again...

Very likely the best way to proceed.
I should be able to try a Redington Zero 4/5 next weekend, with backing and line. I ll see how it fares.

 

[silver creek]

Re: Fly reel to best “balance” a 8’6 4wt Redington Classic Trout?

“Its about comfort as much as how the outfit feels when casting.”


This is exactly what I’m looking for. A reel that you can forget once on the rod, that will not affect in a negative way the casting process, and maybe, will make the rod feel more pleasant than another reel of a different weight.

What if I tell you that you can cast better with NO reel on the rod? Balancing a rod and reel for casting is a fallacy that has been disproven.

The truth is that the lighter the reel the farther you can cast and the easier the rod is to manipulate for in the air mends. So that for casting, the mass/weight of the reel hinders the ability of the caster to move the combined mass of rod and reel. The mass of the reel is useless and in fact is a hindrance to casting.

But the mass of the reel is important in the balance point of the rod reel combo for fishing. Since the amount of fly line on the reel changes the neutral balance point of the rod and reel; and you can move your hand up and down the reel handle to "balance" adjust how the rod /reel will tilt, there is no need to be exact.

MOREOVER, you may fish differently than the person you are asking for advice. So with that in mind, buying the same reel is an unreliable method of getting to an answer.

Sexyloops, the premier fly casting site, run by competitive fly caster Paul Arden agrees with Vince Marinaro that there is no such thing as rod/reel balance during fly casting.

Sexyloops - the best fly fishing and fly casting instruction seven days a week

There have been at least 10 previous posts on rod/reel balance on NAFFF. Read the first hit on the search below.

theflyfishingforum.com rod reel balance - Google Search

 

[skel]

Re: Fly reel to best “balance” a 8’6 4wt Redington Classic Trout?

Extremely interesting.
Thanks a lot for the links. It seems I have quite a lot of reading to do
Have a great week

 

[silver creek]

Re: Fly reel to best “balance” a 8’6 4wt Redington Classic Trout?

Extremely interesting.
Thanks a lot for the links. It seems I have quite a lot of reading to do
Have a great week

Here's the deal on the rod you are asking about which is an 8’6 4wt Redington Classic Trout. This is shorter and a lighter line weight than the prototypical 9 ft. 5 wt. So the "swing weight" (moment of inertia) will be less than the standard 9 ft 5 wt. When one mentions rod/reel balance they really mean the swing weight of the fly rod even when it is NOT SWINGING. In other words does the rod tip feel heavy or tip light or neutral in the hand even when it is NOT SWINGING.

If we compare rod models of a rod series, the shorter rods will have lower moments of inertia and lighter line wts will have lower moments of inertia. Your rod is both shorter and a lower line wt than the prototypical 9 ft 5 wt.

Would it surprise you if I told you that I fish a 10 ft 5 wt G Loomis original GLX as my go to rod on the Madison River in Montana and I have the original Ross Evolution reel that is LIGHTER than the current Ross Evolution. One would think that with a longer rod, I would need a heavier reel. But for a 10 ft rod the GLX in its time was the lightest rod. I never obsessed about rod/reel balance. I have fished this rod reel combo for many many years and it never feels "out of balance" I know where to hold the rod to cast and where to hold it if I want the tip up or tip down. It is really no big deal.

I proofread Gary Borger’s book, The Perfect Cast I while he was writing it. He discusses the concept of rod/reel balance for fly casting in Chapter 3, and there is no such thing during the cast. Gary also discusses this concept in his blog:

Gary Borger >> Blog Archive >> Rod Balance

“So, finding the teeter-totter balancing point is of obviously no value to casting. On might think that it would be of slight value when fishing because the rod would be neither tip heavy nor butt heavy when held horizontally in the hand. However, in real life fishing, it makes no difference at all. The rod is moved, fished sometimes with the tip up, sometimes with the tip down, and always with the drag of the line against the tip. Just use the reel that has the capacity to hold the line and sufficient backing, has a serviceable and adequate drag, but far above everything else is s-m-o-o-t-h. A rough turning reel is no better that winding the line around tin can or coke bottle.”

Buy a quality reel with a SMOOOTHHH drag. Don't obsess over the weight of the reel!

 

[sweetandsalt]

Re: Fly reel to best “balance” a 8’6 4wt Redington Classic Trout?

What if I tell you that you can cast better with NO reel on the rod? Balancing a rod and reel for casting is a fallacy that has been disproven.

The truth is that the lighter the reel the farther you can cast and the easier the rod is to manipulate for in the air mends. So that for casting, the mass/weight of the reel hinders the ability of the caster to move the combined mass of rod and reel. The mass of the reel is useless and in fact is a hindrance to casting.

With genuine respect and understanding and we have been over this matter several times before, I maintain that "casting" is but a component of fishing and, in actual time spent, walking, wading/or drifting and head hunting, neutral gravity balancing of one's outfit with forefinger at the natural position on the cork as the fulcrum is important. In pure casting is a lighter reel advantageous? Yes, as in less mass to move. When stalking a fish? No, as in fighting tip droop, a distraction. To each his own but I carefully strive to balance each outfit in its rigged, at ready, state.

 

[skel]

Re: Fly reel to best “balance” a 8’6 4wt Redington Classic Trout?

I guess the truth is in the right compromise: as light a reel as possible without letting the rod tip droop (too) uncomfortably at a standby position... , which is also what Siver Creek suggested if I understood him well. You both actually seem to hold very similar views on the subject. This is encouraging
The smoothness of the drag won’t be an issue as the trout I’m stalking are no bigger than 8 inches, and I hold the line in the crook of my right hand index finger while retrieving and controlling the tension of the line/leader with my left hand (if it makes any sense). To sum it up, I don’t fight the trout with the reel. I don’t fish very far.
Hopefully the Redington Zero 4/5 I ‘ll try this coming weekend will do the trick (I can always add a little bit of weight to it as suggested above if necessary)...
Thank you very much for all your comments, advice and explanations.

 

[yamramil]

Re: Fly reel to best “balance” a 8’6 4wt Redington Classic Trout?

The best balance for rods of 3-4 classes is the minimum weight of the reel))

My plastic reels for #3 rod Weight 65 grams

And I do fly fishing casting sport. The lower the weight of the fishing rod and reel, the far you can cast))

 

[silver creek]

Re: Fly reel to best “balance” a 8’6 4wt Redington Classic Trout?

The best balance for rods of 3-4 classes is the minimum weight of the reel))

My plastic reels for #3 rod Weight 65 grams

And I do fly fishing casting sport. The lower the weight of the fishing rod and reel, the far you can cast))

I remember when I first started fly fishing back in the 1970's and my wife and I took a Friday to Sunday Fenwick Fly Fishing Course led by Gary Borger. It was where I first met Gary and found out that he lived in the same town I had moved to.

I was just starting out at my first job, I had bought a home, so money was tight. I splurged on the fly fishing course so after the course I made two Fenwick original HMG fly rods and bought 2 low end Berkley fly reels. The reels were plastic.

I used those reels for over 10 years and when I was on the Flyfish@ internet group, I met up with some other members to fish the Green River in Utah. Jim Greenlee and I drove out and fished it for about a week. A couple of members of Flyfish@ joined us and they were surprised that I used a "plastic" reel. I had never given it a second thought. It worked fine. I learned to palm larger fish on that reel and if I dropped it, it bounced off of the rocks. It was cheap and it worked.

 

[yamramil]

Re: Fly reel to best “balance” a 8’6 4wt Redington Classic Trout?

I remember when I first started fly fishing back in the 1970's and my wife and I took a Friday to Sunday Fenwick Fly Fishing Course led by Gary Borger. It was where I first met Gary and found out that he lived in the same town I had moved to.

I was just starting out at my first job, I had bought a home, so money was tight. I splurged on the fly fishing course so after the course I made two Fenwick original HMG fly rods and bought 2 low end Berkley fly reels. The reels were plastic.

I used those reels for over 10 years and when I was on the Flyfish@ internet group, I met up with some other members to fish the Green River in Utah. Jim Greenlee and I drove out and fished it for about a week. A couple of members of Flyfish@ joined us and they were surprised that I used a "plastic" reel. I had never given it a second thought. It worked fine. I learned to palm larger fish on that reel and if I dropped it, it bounced off of the rocks. It was cheap and it worked.

Cool story)))

I started using plastic reels in casting sports three years ago)) I have a lot of sport line and I need a lot of reels)) Plastic reels helped me become the Russian champion in fly fishing casting in 2017 and silver medalist in 2018

 

[jfh245]

Re: Fly reel to best “balance” a 8’6 4wt Redington Classic Trout?

I always enjoy these discussions for their different points of view. 99% of my fishing has become nymphing with 2 and 3wt 10' rods. Decided I don't care for the 10.5 to 11ft feel. Initially, I started with much heavier reels to achieve the "balance" recommended by many skilled nymphers. Never actually felt comfortable with the feel and feedback of a "balanced" outfit. Frankly, my preferred set-up has become a 10' 2 or 3wt with the ensemble of Orvis Battenkill III, CFO III or IV, or English Battenkill 3/4 or 5/6. All of these reels are considerably lighter than the much heavier, adjustable drag reels I felt compuncted to use for years. Newer technologies are offering 10' rods weighing under 3 ounces and reels in the same unbelievable ballpark. I respect the facts about rod tip movement and arm comfort as a real concern, but I will rob Peter to pay Paul. Thanks.

On the other hand, I am extremely critical with regards to the size, configuration, taper, and build of all my rod handles. Hopefully, I've not just opened another can of worms.

 

[skel]

Re: Fly reel to best “balance” a 8’6 4wt Redington Classic Trout?

I really enjoyed the combination Classic Trout 8’6 #4 and Redington Zero 4/5 reel I used this weekend. Light and nimble.
I will keep the reel
The line is a Barrio SmallStream #4, a pleasure on the small river I’m fishing - and it helped me deal with the wind nicely. I guess I had the right leader too.
The clicker is a bit loud, but nothing I can’t get used to.

 

[proheli]

Re: Fly reel to best “balance” a 8’6 4wt Redington Classic Trout?

For me, wrist strength is an issue. If the rod tip is heavy, then leverage that ounce by 9 ft, so 9 extra ounces of swing weight. Now I need to accelerate that rod to a hard stop? Na, after a while my wrist just doesn’t like it. And I’ve got a good handshake grip. You should see my backcasts, they are pretty good, going forward is harder on my wrist and I end up compensating sometimes. So for me, I prefer the balance point is about an inch down the cork.

 

[mjkirshner]

Re: Fly reel to best “balance” a 8’6 4wt Redington Classic Trout?

Sounds like you've made a choice but fwiw I really like the Galvan Brookie that I have on an 8' Grey's GR50. Very light, very simple, with a pleasant (muted) sound. The ball bearing "drag" has just enough resistance. I understand that it is adjustable, but I've not tried to monkey with it.

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

 

[satyr]

Re: Fly reel to best “balance” a 8’6 4wt Redington Classic Trout?

Most clickers can be taken off if the reel has a real drag. I always do this on my Lamson Litespeed reels. I much prefer a silent reel.