Inserts: wood vs. graphite

[dean_mt]

So I've been hearing some loud comments about using wood vs. woven graphite inserts from some of the members here, guys who's opinions and knowledge I respect.

But I'm wondering if it's more than a generational issue. Is a wood insert really that more functional than graphite? I tend to worry that aside from the very best, that unless the wood pieces are the best and finished to a very high level that they will not last as long. They get worn, gouged and scratched with normal use. Water penetrates and eventually ruins it. Granted, I've yet to experience this with the wood insert on my rod I've used for a dozen years.

But why the resistence? Something new?

Many of the new rods I've looked at, at least the Loomis NRX w/ a $700 price tag come with graphite inserts and anodized reel seats. Are they cutting costs (hard to imagine) or just moving forward?

 

[williamhj]

I put wood on 5wt and lower and metal on 6wt and higher. Fits with reels I want and wrap colors I choose as well. No reason other than the aesthetics I like on a rod

 

[caseywise]

i have rods with both wood and the woven seats and really could care less as long as the rod balances and casts well.
i also have the all metal seats that i like as well.
as long as its well constructed,balances the rod and looks good (eye of the beholder) i'll take it.
i have always loved the look of exotic hardwoods and maple burrules, as well as the new composite seats with the graphics and/or logos....
however, the new hardy seats are a bit overboard (and i like progressive designs), but we'll see. i'm sure they'll grow on me soon enough


casey

 

[Guest1]

I have put wood in a lot of stuff. My 10 wt. Winston has a stabilized wood insert. It has never given me the slightest problem and that rod is not even close to new. I must have built it at least 9 or 10 years ago.

I have a lot of wood in my 15' 8/9 wt. Meiser, but it's not stabilized. I need to work on the finish if I fish it alot when it's really cold. No problems when it's warm. Not sure why the temperature makes a difference but it does.

My 5 wt has stabilized wood and looks as good as the day I built it 12 or 13years ago.

If I had the choice I'd never use anything but stabilized wood. It is a bit spendy though. Just make sure if you use a wood that isn't stabilized you get the entire inside good with epoxy when you glue it up and that includes the ends. A good finish on the outside and you should never have a problem.

Oh and by the way, the only place on my Meiser I have finish issues when it's cold is on the lower grip where my hand is when casting.

 

[dean_mt]

Thanks guys.

Wood is good!

And still weighing my options...I'd really like to find one home for all the components and just one shipping bill.

 

[Guest1]

..I'd really like to find one home for all the components and just one shipping bill.

Good luck on that one. I have not managed the one stop shop in my last ..... I'm not sure how many rods.

 

[wt bash]

I hear that! Usually my orders go through Angler's Workshop, Bellinger, Rushbrook Strand, J Stockard, JD Wagner and so on!

 

[dean_mt]

Good luck on that one. I have not managed the one stop shop in my last ..... I'm not sure how many rods.

I hear that! Usually my orders go through Angler's Workshop, Bellinger, Rushbrook Strand, J Stockard, JD Wagner and so on!

I have slowly come to accept the fact. It sucks because all these sites have sooo many components, pieces and parts. I think we are generally spoiled with too many options, in nearly all decisions we make, from toilet paper to peanut butter. O well...

 

[fredaevans]

I hear that! Usually my orders go through Angler's Workshop, Bellinger, Rushbrook Strand, J Stockard, JD Wagner and so on!

I've used Angler's Workshop since the '60's. One other to add to the list above is a place called 'Mudhole.' Why they chose that name is beyond me. Just shipped over two boxes of rod building supplies to the UK. Guy got very good deals from both.

Fred

 

[jpbfly]

Got both...no problemsjust think wood is nicermaybe because I'm a bit oldschool

 

[williamhj]

I've used Angler's Workshop since the '60's. One other to add to the list above is a place called 'Mudhole.'

Fred

Don't forget Acid Rod, Utmost Enterprises, Janns Netcraft, Bingham Enterprises, the Golden Witch, Ye Olde English Fly Shop, and then ebay...

 

[mojo]

Wood if it's a custom built rod for freshwater. Joel Lemke has some of the nicest.
This one went on a 2wt. Sage I built a couple years ago.

 

[plecain]

I have slowly come to accept the fact. It sucks because all these sites have sooo many components, pieces and parts. I think we are generally spoiled with too many options, in nearly all decisions we make, from toilet paper to peanut butter. O well...

Funny, but there's a whole theory about 'too many choices'. Some research says that having too many choices makes us unhappy.

Google "too many choices" to look at some of this.

 

[mojo]

Funny, but there's a whole theory about 'too many choices'. Some research says that having too many choices makes us unhappy.

Google "too many choices" to look at some of this.

I'm happy with Snake brand guides, Lemke reel seats, AAAA cork and Winston blanks

 

[Ard]

Hi John,

Cork down locking for me; if I use or buy wood it would be Amboina burl. I have 2 with that and like then probably because it's not too noticeable and kinda looks like cork from a distance. I had 2 orvis rods that came with wood and sent them both back for a rebuild of the grip; swapped them to down locks with cork............... I ordered a New Hardy Spey rod that has not arrived yet, I forget if it's cork or graphite Whatever it is I will leave it alone.

 

[imxer]

FWIW

To me it depends upon the finish and color of the blank.

 

[dean_mt]

Hi John,

Cork down locking for me; if I use or buy wood it would be Amboina burl. I have 2 with that and like then probably because it's not too noticeable and kinda looks like cork from a distance. I had 2 orvis rods that came with wood and sent them both back for a rebuild of the grip; swapped them to down locks with cork............... I ordered a New Hardy Spey rod that has not arrived yet, I forget if it's cork or graphite Whatever it is I will leave it alone.

Why down locking, Ard? I put on one my little Sage 2wt, but have UL on my other couple rods.

Is cork suitable for large rods? Don't know why but I assumed it was for small seats and friction rings.

 

[sweetandsalt]

Cane rod history permeates fly rod aesthetics. Figured hardwood, nickle silver and subdued natural tones go way way back. But wait! Rods are made of plastic now. I long ago got used to anodized aluminum instead of nickle silver. Loomis used pressure impregnated stabilised wood composits in the reel seats of IMX prior to introducing the first woven carbon fiber spacer in GLX what? A quarter century ago? Wood spacers are hollowed out and can not represent a substantial weight disadvantage. I have had more issues with the metal hardware; lock rings un-threading or jamming, loose fitting hoods or hoods that got crushed beneath the cork in boating abuse (I like machined not stamped hoods), too fine threading that got unhappy with a grain of sand (how did that get there?) than I have ever has with the spacer which is just for looks. So pick your metalwork carefully; look for squared threading ,dual lock rings perhaps with a delrin compression ring between them, machined hoods perhaps ported as Orvis introduced with Helios and the spacer should suite your fancy.

One thing though about cork. Many seasons ago before woven carbon spacers or even carbon rods, my fishing partner and I bought a matching brace of Scott rods with cork grip, spacer and two aluminum sliding bands. We'd fished hard through the mayfly season and as heat built in the lowlands we took a trip up into the high country of the Sun River side of the Bob. By now our cork work was soiled by the sweat of hard fishing and my dog must have slept unusually soundly for my buddy woke up in the morning to find his Scott Pow-R-Ply (yellow glass) rod to have nothing but nubby glue residue where the cork should be. A porcupine, enjoying the salt of our labors, gnawed the cork completely away during the night!

 

[williamhj]

I've seen lots of pictures of older bamboo rods with rather clunky looking metal reel seats. I really don't know squat about older rods, so perhaps higher end ones had nice wood seats, but I've been surprised how many had rather plain metal seats.

Still, I prefer wood seats for trout rods and metal for bass and pike. Just personal I suppose.

 

[Ard]

Why down locking, Ard? I put on one my little Sage 2wt, but have UL on my other couple rods.

Is cork suitable for large rods? Don't know why but I assumed it was for small seats and friction rings.

S&S makes for good info as always

The down lock thing is simply a personal preference but not one without reasoning at hand. Almost every rod now is sold with up locking hardware save a few Spey casting models. it seemed to me that round about the mid 80's up locking hardware and Rocket Taper (WF) lines became the new normal for fly rods and fishing.

One thing I find that to a certain extent is inarguable; when you are putting a rod and reel together for fishing, having a down lock seat provides that the hood for the back of the reel foot is on the bottom. Why would that matter? have you ever dropped a reel while trying to hold it 'up' into an up locking reel seat as you screwed or slid the back or bottom ring over the back of the foot? It is natural that you may point the tip of the rod either strait up or at least have it inclined while you mount a reel. When you have a down lock system the reel sort of keeps itself in place while you affix the rings, not so with the up lock system.

Weight distribution is another advantage of having the reel positioned just an inch or so more toward the butt of the rod. I have a 9' 4 piece Orvis PM-10 5 weight rod with an up-lock seat. Regardless of whether I load a 5 or 6 weight line the rod is tip heavy when strung up with line at or past the tip top and a fly hooked into my hook keeper. This makes for the tip wanting to gravitate downward while I walk along a stream. What harm in this? Actually none, as long as I maintain a tight grip on the cork and be sure the tip does not wedge into the rocks and such as I walk. I like a rod and reel (in the condition described as 'strung up') to be perfectly balanced at the very front of the cork. This will allow a very relaxed grip whenever you are simply holding the rod and walking. No tip going up, no tip going down, just a nice level balanced rod.

When the line from that same rod is out the tip by 40' the weight of the reel is reduced of course and that balance is moot. With that particular rod I went through many reels looking for balance and ended up with a Viscount size 7/8 reel on it to balance it out. Still I wish the reel sat further back on the rod and that I didn't have to be leary of dropping it every time I rig my rod and reel together.

Whether that was all necessary to answer a simple question or not I don't know but I said it and I'm gonna hit the submit reply button now