Thread: nylon or NCP

[dean_mt]

What do you more experienced builder's prefer and why? I'm not even sure which I've used on my past rods, I know I've never used color preserver and also haven't had issues.

Is there a difference aside from personal preference of the finished look?

 

[Guest1]

I don't really like the NCP thread because it has a weird look to it. Regular thread makes for better colors.

 

[dean_mt]

Thanks Dan.

 

[swirlchaser]

NCP is definately easier to work with but like Dan said, your color choice is limited. I wrap my guides with NCP. My shading work would not be posible unless I use nylon threads.

 

[robert_nguyen]

Depending on certain colors, I will use Color Perserver (pastels and white) for nylon thread. The colors for NCP thread is kinda weird to me and I refuse to use them.

If possible try to load up on gudebrod rod wrapping thread. IMO, they're the best thread out there and might be in trouble again. So get what you can before they disappear again.

 

[swirlchaser]

Depending on certain colors, I will use Color Perserver (pastels and white) for nylon thread. The colors for NCP thread is kinda weird to me and I refuse to use them.

If possible try to load up on gudebrod rod wrapping thread. IMO, they're the best thread out there and might be in trouble again. So get what you can before they disappear again.

You can have all my GB threads in size A. I've switched to embroidery threads, never looked back

 

[dean_mt]

Funny this thread came back to life. Just last week I finally got to put a finish on my wraps and learned another lesson!

I used Fish Hawk tan nylon for the wraps but used Pro Wrap's version of NCP (they don't call it that, but that is what it is) for a light gray tipping at the end of each guide wrap. After the epoxy went on - no color perserver - all the tags of the NCP gray (which looks more white now) are clearly visible under the tan. A bit disappointing.

Does color perserver help keep nylon thread more opaque? Thus in the this situation help hide the tags under the main wrap? I didn't use it because I wanted the main guide wraps to go more translucent and darken the color. I wonder if using all nylon would have hidden the tags?

I was planning on posting some pictures and asking these questions, and I will do that tonight maybe.

I did feel better after looking at some $700 Loomis rods at the store yesterday and seeing all the tag ends and in their trim wraps...they were surprisingly sloppy!

 

[swirlchaser]

Funny this thread came back to life. Just last week I finally got to put a finish on my wraps and learned another lesson!

I used Fish Hawk tan nylon for the wraps but used Pro Wrap's version of NCP (they don't call it that, but that is what it is) for a light gray tipping at the end of each guide wrap. After the epoxy went on - no color perserver - all the tags of the NCP gray (which looks more white now) are clearly visible under the tan. A bit disappointing.

Does color perserver help keep nylon thread more opaque? Thus in the this situation help hide the tags under the main wrap? I didn't use it because I wanted the main guide wraps to go more translucent and darken the color. I wonder if using all nylon would have hidden the tags?

I was planning on posting some pictures and asking these questions, and I will do that tonight maybe.

I did feel better after looking at some $700 Loomis rods at the store yesterday and seeing all the tag ends and in their trim wraps...they were surprisingly sloppy!

Yes it does. Two coats of CP will keep nylon threads from going translucent. If you look at the decorative wraps I do they are all with Polyneon embroidery thread. It goes translucent same as Nylon when you don't use CP.

 

[robert_nguyen]

You can have all my GB threads in size A. I've switched to embroidery threads, never looked back

Hmmm..... I've never thought about that. What brand do you use?

 

[swirlchaser]

Hmmm..... I've never thought about that. What brand do you use?

I use Madiera. The color selection is awesome and tons of shades available.

 

[swirlchaser]

Size 40 is equilevant to an "A" thread.

 

[random user]

I use Madiera. The color selection is awesome and tons of shades available.

Size 40 is equilevant to an "A" thread.

Would this be the same as SULKY 40 100% Rayon?

Reason I am asking is that I have access to a boatload of the SULKY stuff and I just ordered components for my fist bid at wrapping and the items on back order are the thread. The 40 weight SULKY doesn't seem all that strong.

 

[random user]

Am ignorant here. Can someone clue me in? Tried google, but couldn't get a clear enough answer.

NCP = No Color Preserver?
- seems less preferred
- apparently a little easier to work for some reason
- has a limited color range

I get that it is thread of some type, but what is it actually? Some type of nylon? Rayon? Mystery fiber? Stronger or weaker than basic nylon? What's the deal with it?

 

[dean_mt]

I started this thread (pun intended) so obviously I am not an authority but here is what I understand. Yes, NCP means "no color perserver" needed for the thread to look like the same color off the spool as after you put epoxy on it. The downsides are less colors and less vibrancy in the actual color. The are a bit flat and very opaque.

On the rod I just finished I used ProWrap brand nylon for the tan and green and Fish Hawk NCP for the trim bands. If you look back at that rod build thread you can see the difference in the vibrancy of the colors before epoxy...and after. Nylon thread without color preserver will always have an amount of transparency, so the color will change depending on the color of the blank under it (or any underwrap). Again on my XP I used tan, which looked almost non-metallic gold, but after the finish the green of the blank made it much darker and the guide feet are clearly visible under the transparent thread. If I'd used color preserver, I imagine the tan would have stayed much closer to the unfinished look.

"Raw" tan nylon and lt. gray NCP:

And finished:

As for the characteristics of the threads and my limited experience with the NCP, I much prefer nylon. The Fish Hawk NCP tended to fray and unravel a bit when making small trim band. Nylon stays in its nice little "rope" no matter.

Other members here like Diver Dan and Swirlchaser, just to name a couple, are incredibly experienced thread masters, if you will. They do amazing stuff and will hopefully give you better and more info.

 

[swirlchaser]

NCP mean no color preservative needed. It's still nylon, but the dye is sealed in. The color you see on the spool is the color you will see under the epoxy. It's easier to work with because you can skip the color preservative step but the colors are limited.

Rayon and Polyneon are basically embroidery threads. Much greater selection in colors but you will need color preservative and some colors will darken slightly. The only downfall to using embroidery thread is that the largest diameter available is a 40 weight, which is eqivelant to a size "A". When building fly rods or rods rated up to 30lb test line "A" thread is fine. The only time I use larger thread is when I'm building rods rated above 50lb test.

Any time they can brand an item for a specific task they can charge more money.
650yds of NCP "rod building" thread $6.70
1100yds of Embroydery thread $3.85

It's worth experimenting

---------- Post added at 08:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:39 PM ----------

I started this thread (pun intended) so obviously I am not an authority but here is what I understand. Yes, NCP means "no color perserver" needed for the thread to look like the same color off the spool as after you put epoxy on it. The downsides are less colors and less vibrancy in the actual color. The are a bit flat and very opaque.

On the rod I just finished I used ProWrap brand nylon for the tan and green and Fish Hawk NCP for the trim bands. If you look back at that rod build thread you can see the difference in the vibrancy of the colors before epoxy...and after. Nylon thread without color preserver will always have an amount of transparency, so the color will change depending on the color of the blank under it (or any underwrap). Again on my XP I used tan, which looked almost non-metallic gold, but after the finish the green of the blank made it much darker and the guide feet are clearly visible under the transparent thread. If I'd used color preserver, I imagine the tan would have stayed much closer to the unfinished look.

"Raw" tan nylon and lt. gray NCP:

And finished:

As for the characteristics of the threads and my limited experience with the NCP, I much prefer nylon. The Fish Hawk NCP tended to fray and unravel a bit when making small trim band. Nylon stays in its nice little "rope" no matter.

Other members here like Diver Dan and Swirlchaser, just to name a couple, are incredibly experienced thread masters, if you will. They do amazing stuff and will hopefully give you better and more info.

Dean, those wraps look awesome. Nice choice of colors and I think the Tan looks better the way you finished it, I like a subtle color transition on flyrods.

 

[dean_mt]

Thanks man. I really appreciate the kind words. Coming from a builder like you it means a lot.