WTF Happened to My Wraps?

[whalensdad]

I built this rod over the winter and have been using it since then. The last time I went out I noticed that I had 1 set of wraps that were milky white, while the rest of my wraps look normal. WTF caused this? What do I need to do to prevent it? Do I need to redo the wraps or is it only cosmetic?

Milky White Wraps


Good Wraps

 

[petee]

Looks like moisture got under them. Is there a small gap between the finish and guide or the finish and the blank? Those are the two spots where moisture can migrate under the finish and screw up everything. Pretty much the same thing Steeldrifter mentioned on the other board.

Pete

 

[whalensdad]

I looked at everything under a magnifying glass and did not see any gaps.








Is there anything else that can cause this? Should I redo them or is my rod ok?

 

[Auntie Em]

In your last post, with the three pictures, I'd almost guess that there could be a leak in the very front where the thread meets up to the guide (picture two) left half of the guide. Just a guess, mind you. I'd suggest taking off the epoxy and wraps from this guide, making sure when you are wrapping it that it is totally dry (color preserver?), and very carefully re-epozy-ing the wrap, taking care to begin and end smoothly and completely, especially where the thread meets the metal.

 

[Ard]

My guess is that this may have been the first wrap done, meaning it got the thread from the top of the spool. The thread itself may have been moist / damp. The under layers of thread from the spool used on the other wraps may have been drier.

The second thing that I have seen that will cause this is if you apply multiple coats of finish before the first coat is thoroughly dry. During the curing process various solvents and a very small percentage of moisture rise to the surface of most finishes as the chemical reaction that we call drying takes place. If we apply a second coat before the solvents and etc have completely dried we trap them beneath the second coat.

This can happen with the finish on the heads of salmon & streamer flies also.

Ard

---------- Post added at 08:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:07 AM ----------

I saw the 'Like' on that Auntie Em,

Do you think that's a possibility? have you ever had the problem with rushed second coats?

I've had it happen and should have known better. I ran a restoration business for many years and we dis a lot of historical work. It was very important to allow coats of varnish - lacquer - or polyurethane to dri fully between coats or you could have this 'milky' appearance happen to finished wood surfaces too.

 

[whalensdad]

The thing is it happened after 6 months of use. I guess I'll never really know what caused it. I'm just going to remove the wrap and guide and redo it.

 

[Ard]

I've seen finish hold up for months before the problem sets in. What happens is time. Time and or UV.

 

[bigjim5589]

I don't do any rod building, but have had that milky appearance on fly heads while tying flies.

Once, I found out that certain types of wax don't work well with some head cements or epoxy. I was using waxed thread & solved the problem by going to unwaxed.

The other time I had it happen I had gotten "something" oily on my fingers, which transferred to the thread. I noticed a stain under the finish. When I tie now, I make a point of washing my hands thoroughly before tying & making sure my tying area is clean & of course dry.

IMO, unless you intend to sell the rod, and the guide is secure, I would leave it alone & use it as is & wait to see if it gets worse. It appears to be a cosmetic issue only at this point.

 

[Auntie Em]

Ard,
I have had this happen on flies, and furniture finishing.

Had "something" happen on a couple wraps early on in my rod crafting, usually after the rod had been dunked, so I figured it was a leak somewhere. Rather than chance anything worse happening while miles from home, I changed the wraps out.

Moisture is not the friend of epoxy. Nor are oily fingers, wax, dust, ... ahhh, the list goes on and on!!
Em

 

[theboz]

Ive seen this happen with older spools of thread the kind you used to use color preserver with. Thread that comes from a shop where it is left open may come in contact with all kinds of things! A worker in my shop was spraying bug spray all over the place one time and the owner went crazy on him! Just think what that residue could do to all exposed spools of thread in the shop!

 

[whalensdad]

What's the best way to remove the epoxy without ruining the blank? I plan on using a heat gun to soften the epoxy, but I'm not sure how it will affect the thread and the blank. Do I just get it soft and then wipe down to the exposed threads, cut the thread and remove and then continue or something else?

 

[swirlchaser]

What's the best way to remove the epoxy without ruining the blank? I plan on using a heat gun to soften the epoxy, but I'm not sure how it will affect the thread and the blank. Do I just get it soft and then wipe down to the exposed threads, cut the thread and remove and then continue or something else?

Will you be wrapping back over the area again? If yes then carefully cut along the guide foot with a razor blade and peel off the guide. After that you should be able to find the loose end of the thread and unravel it. The epoxy will pop off as you unravel the thread. There's no way to get a blank completely clean without sanding a refinishing.

 

[whalensdad]

There's no way to get a blank completely clean without sanding a refinishing.

Since I'll be putting the guide back on, should I sand it down or just get it as clean as possible?

 

[williamhj]

I'd worry about sanding it. Could be easy to sand too far or leave a rough surface that makes wrapping tough. I successfully used citri-strip on a blank but don't know that I'd do it for only one guide. Better to get as much as you can off unwrapping the thread then use your fingernail or something similar to slowly get the residue off. Can use a hairdryer too. I use it on low and don't let it blow hard on the blank, just warm the epoxy a bit and try to get it off, then repeat. Slow but better than wrecking a blank.

 

[swirlchaser]

I'd worry about sanding it. Could be easy to sand too far or leave a rough surface that makes wrapping tough. I successfully used citri-strip on a blank but don't know that I'd do it for only one guide. Better to get as much as you can off unwrapping the thread then use your fingernail or something similar to slowly get the residue off. Can use a hairdryer too. I use it on low and don't let it blow hard on the blank, just warm the epoxy a bit and try to get it off, then repeat. Slow but better than wrecking a blank.

^ What he said. If your careful unraveling the thread most of the epoxy will come off and you can just wrap new thread right back on.