Jumping in

[plecain]

I'm going to build my first rod, a 10' 2 wt rod. This is sort of a practice run. The blank was about $20. If I mess up badly, I won't be too bothered.

I have a couple of questions:

1. I like the translucent look of the guide wraps on a couple of factory-built rods I have. To get this look do I choose thread that closely matches the blank in color, or is there a better way?

2. I also like the look of single-foot guides. Are they more difficult to place/wrap than double-foot? Or, doesn't it make any difference?

3. I'm seriously considering a carbon fiber handle rather than cork. Has anyone tried those handles? How did you like it?

Thanks for any help in this new project.

 

[petee]

1) When you mention translucent are you talkiing about seeing the guide foot through the finish? Or having the thread match the blank? A translucent finish is obtained by not using any color preserver or No Color Preserver (NCP)or equalivant thread. Definately play with different threads on the butt section. You can wrap the thread you think you want to use and dab a bit of vegetable oil on the thread to see what they would look like with finish applied. Just make sure you wipe the entire section down with alcohol after you play with it.

2) Single foot guides can be a bit snooty when it comes to placement. Without the other foot they want to move a bit more. No worries, thin masking tape will hold them in place as will those very small dental rubber bands. Once you get the thread wrapped up the foot a ways you can cut off the rubber band. Some guys will use a dab of super glue to help hold the guides in place. Problem with that is if you have to do any fine tuning to the guide placement you are stuck.

3) Never used the carbon fiber handles, so no experience, but the folks who have used them say they work just fine. Not slippery in the hand at all.

Happy building,
Pete

 

[plecain]

When you mention translucent are you talking about seeing the guide foot through the finish?

Yes, that's what I meant.

 

[dean_mt]

or No Color Preserver (NCP)

I know you know, Pete, but I just wanted to point out your typo that would make a big difference.

NCP thread means that no color perserver is needed to obtain the color of wrap that you see on the spool. The thread is already treated to be opaque when finish is applied.

For the translucent look you want to use Nylon thread and then go straight to your epoxy finish without taking the extra steps of applying color perserver.

Nylon thread will always go a couple shades darker when finish is applied, so if you want to match your blank color buy a couple different spools of nylon thread that varying degrees lighter than the blank.

For a completely transparent wrap (like this one that I DID NOT make) you need white silk, but maybe nylon would work, I've never done it. Maybe Pete or someone else with more experience will come back in.

I've also never done single foot guides but would recommend learning with snakes for the first time. You do not want to add unnecessary difficulty.

 

[petee]

Ya, I don't know why they (Gudebrod, now out of business... again) didn't call it NCPR as in No Color Preserver Required. Calling it NCP can mess with a newbie's head. Other manufacturers call it Color Brite, Stay True or Color Fast. None of which need color preserver to maintain their actual color, within a shade or two. But they will also stay opaque so you can't see the guide feet under the thread.

For clear wraps, you don't want to use white silk. Grab an off white silk like YLI 239 or 212. YLI white (000) is actually dyed white and will show up with a very light purple tint, in the sun, to it when the finish is applied. Thanks to Chris Carlin for that info. I believe the picture Dean posted is Chris's work off a tutorial he did.

 

[dean_mt]

For clear wraps, you don't want to use white silk. Grab an off white silk like YLI 239 or 212. YLI white (000) is actually dyed white and will show up with a very light purple tint, in the sun, to it when the finish is applied. Thanks to Chris Carlin for that info. I believe the picture Dean posted is Chris's work off a tutorial he did.

It is Pete, I should have given credit. It's a great tutorial also, but we aren't supposed to link other forums here. If anyone wants to see it, Google the name + "transparent rod wrap" and you'll find it.

 

[plecain]

Thanks for the help and suggestions.

I followed some of the link suggestions. There's lots of info out there.

 

[plecain]

Well, this is coming along pretty well.

Naturally, I have another question(s).

I've wrapped and epoxied everything (ProKote). This epoxy seems to take forever to dry. The rod has been spinning in a 75° room for 20 hours. It's still slightly tacky. Is this normal?

On one of the wraps, the hook keeper, the epoxy surface isn't quite smooth. What's the best way to handle that? Another coat? Sand smooth and then another coat? Something else?

Thanks for any help.

 

[petee]

Haven't played with ProKote so I'm not sure about curing times. That being said, I have had some finishes take quite a while to set up completely. They have either been Lite Build or thinned with alcohol. Both take longer than regular build. Plus my the temperature was well under 75. One rod last week still felt tacky after sitting for about 18 hours. Had to set it in the sun for the day to really get it to firm up.

Let me for once try to stick to your questions without babbling on. If the finish stays tacky after a couple of days, it's a good bet it will never set up. You can mix up another batch and apply it right over the first coat. It will set up without any problems.

As for the hook keeper, if the finish plays nice and sets up, you can sand it and recoat it. Cool thing about finishes is the sanding marks will vanish with the application of another finish coat.

What is your description of slightly tacky? If it is leaving finger prints after a couple of days, when you barely touch it, it's a good bet that the ration between hardner and resin was slightly off. Or if it "just doesn't feel right" it is probably not completely cured and might take a bit longer.

You can turn off your turner. Slightly tacky is ok as far as avoiding sags. That's one reason to always keep your left over epoxy around. You can play with it to check it's set without touching the rod.

 

[plecain]

What is your description of slightly tacky? If it is leaving finger prints after a couple of days, when you barely touch it, it's a good bet that the ration between hardner and resin was slightly off. Or if it "just doesn't feel right" it is probably not completely cured and might take a bit longer.

Touching it doesn't leave fingerprints. It feels more like a tack-cloth would - very slightly sticky.

I do still have the left over epoxy on an aluminum sheet. It feels the same way.

I'll leave it alone for a while longer and see what happens. Then I'll attack the one unsmooth wrap.

 

[plecain]

Well, I finished it, and used it.

First, I looked at the package the blank came it. It's a 3 wt, not a 2 wt. My fault. My CCS measurement puts it at 3.57.

It has a couple of cosmetic mistakes. The guide wraps aren't exactly equal. I should have measured them more closely before I epoxied them. Also, there are a couple of tiny lumps where the cut ends of threads stick up. All in all, not bad for a first build. I put exactly zero decoration (trim bands, anything else) on it, and I like that look. No CP on the thread, so it looks like a darker version of the green blank.

I like the rod. A lot.

I first used it on my beaver pond for bluegills and bass. It will throw a WF3F line a long way.

Yesterday I used it on really small trout streams and one medium stream. Other than the problem of hacking through the brush with a 10' rod, I was very happy with it.

I have another identical blank. I'll probably put a bit more decoration on this one, just to get some practice at that.

 

[dean_mt]

If your first rod did not have a couple imperfections then...well you'd be special!

Are you going to show us some pictures? Even "plain" rods i.e. no bling or decorative wraps deserve to be seen.

I can't wait to get my next project started ... in a few months.

 

[williamhj]

+1 on the pictures! If your 5th rod doesn't have some 'imperfections' it would be amazing . Congrats on finishing it! Nothing like fishing with a rod you built.

 

[biggie_robs]

Well, I finished it, and used it.

First, I looked at the package the blank came it. It's a 3 wt, not a 2 wt. My fault. My CCS measurement puts it at 3.57.

It has a couple of cosmetic mistakes. The guide wraps aren't exactly equal. I should have measured them more closely before I epoxied them. Also, there are a couple of tiny lumps where the cut ends of threads stick up. All in all, not bad for a first build. I put exactly zero decoration (trim bands, anything else) on it, and I like that look. No CP on the thread, so it looks like a darker version of the green blank.

I like the rod. A lot.

I first used it on my beaver pond for bluegills and bass. It will throw a WF3F line a long way.

Yesterday I used it on really small trout streams and one medium stream. Other than the problem of hacking through the brush with a 10' rod, I was very happy with it.

I have another identical blank. I'll probably put a bit more decoration on this one, just to get some practice at that.

Congratulations on fishing your first rod! When you build your next rod, please don't shy away from single foot guides--especially on a lightweight rod like a 3wt. I don't find them more difficult; in fact, I find them twice as easy because there is only one foot to wrap. Moreover, with the lesser weight resulting from less mass on the guides and the wraps and the finish, you'll have a more responsive rod!

In any case, enjoy building your next fly rod!

 

[petee]

Shoot, if you ever build the perfect rod, walk away from building forever as you have reached rod building nirvana. The perfect rod has yet to be built. Any builder can always find something they could have done better.... at least in their eyes.

No other rod will ever fish like your first build. :thmbup:

 

[plecain]

Re: Jumping in - pictures

Here are a couple of photos of the finished rod.

I put the hook keeper up where it is to keep it away from my fingers when I'm carrying the rod.

You can see some of the mismatched thread lengths on some of the guide wraps.

On the plus side, the guide alignment is nearly perfect over the 10' length. There are no voids by the guide legs. Epoxy fills all of them.

I may have been stingy on the epoxy. That's because when I've molded race car parts, keeping the epoxy (weight) to a minimum is a prime consideration. I just followed that practice.

This was fun and a good learning experience.

On to the next one (same length and weight; different color). I'm still considering a carbon fiber handle.

 

[dean_mt]

Re: Jumping in - pictures

Great job. If the guides line up perfectly over 10' then you've done very well. I've found that to be one of the harder details to perfect. I like how you bumped the hook keeper up to make it your custom rod, that's why we do it!

What did you finally decide to go with for epoxy? Just curious, it looks good.

 

[plecain]

Re: Jumping in - pictures

What did you finally decide to go with for epoxy?

Mudhole's ProKote, full strength. I like it. There are no bubbles at all.

 

[dean_mt]

Re: Jumping in - pictures

Mudhole's ProKote, full strength. I like it. There are no bubbles at all.

How long was the pot life? One of the reasons I tried TM Lite was for the advertised long pot life. I go kind of slow I guess and could only do half a rod with one batch of standard Flex Cement.

 

[plecain]

Re: Jumping in - pictures

How long was the pot life? One of the reasons I tried TM Lite was for the advertised long pot life. I go kind of slow I guess and could only do half a rod with one batch of standard Flex Cement.

Pretty long. I'd say 5-6 hours at 68°.

The first batch I mixed didn't have enough hardener. It took about 20 hours to dry. The next batch was better.