First Time at Rod Building - Questions

[mike126]

I'm thinking about building a fly rod for the first time. Ideally I'd like to go with a Sage blank since I really like the way my Sage 4wt rod casts and have always liked a faster action rod. The rod I'd like to build is a 7wt or 8wt 9' for small mouth bass and saltwater. As a newbie, I have lots of questions but will try to keep them to a few...

First, given this is my first attempt should I invest in a Sage blank or one that is a letter less costly?

I'm looking to either make or buy a hand wrapper. Preferably one with a tensioner. I have a full woodshop (for my hobby) so building one is pretty simple. Recommendations for something simple but effective?

Do I need a dryer?

Any recommendations on where to purchase blanks, guides, reel seats, and grips etc?

Thanks for the advice...
Mike

 

[el jefe]

If you decide to go with a Sage blank, the guides that complement a first-class blank are the Snake Brand Universal Guides. Those guides have a contoured foot that match the radius of the rod blank, so that they sit right down on the blank and make for easy wrapping. Particularly on the small radius tip section, that is a blessing of incalculable worth. The guide feet don't need to be prepped, either, though it is always a good idea to check any guide before you mount it on the blank and wrap it.

The Universal Guides cost 3X what a standard guide set costs, but at roughly $30, the reduction in frustration and prep work is worth it many times over, and may save you snapping your blank over your knee in frustration. Effectively, it is a $20 upgrade, and one I would recommend no matter the price of the blank. Of course, if you want the real rod building experience, with lots of spilled and consumed alcohol, tired shoulders and neck muscles, and the perfection of your expletive vocabulary, go with the flat foot guides.

 

[Rip Tide]

You'll make plenty of mistakes on your first build, but that's no reason not to use the blank that you want.
Every issue that you might have is correctable right up to the point when the epoxy or finish is applied.
And even then, with a bit of added effort you can still fix stuff.

That said I'd start with a kit as Mr mudholetaylor (who needs to be contacted about a sponsorship if he wishes to continue promoting mudhole dot com) suggested
Once you've got the first one under your belt, it's a lot easier to picture how you want to proceed.

 

[mike126]

If you decide to go with a Sage blank, the guides that complement a first-class blank are the Snake Brand Universal Guides. Those guides have a contoured foot that match the radius of the rod blank, so that they sit right down on the blank and make for easy wrapping. Particularly on the small radius tip section, that is a blessing of incalculable worth. The guide feet don't need to be prepped, either, though it is always a good idea to check any guide before you mount it on the blank and wrap it.

The Universal Guides cost 3X what a standard guide set costs, but at roughly $30, the reduction in frustration and prep work is worth it many times over, and may save you snapping your blank over your knee in frustration. Effectively, it is a $20 upgrade, and one I would recommend no matter the price of the blank. Of course, if you want the real rod building experience, with lots of spilled and consumed alcohol, tired shoulders and neck muscles, and the perfection of your expletive vocabulary, go with the flat foot guides.

Sage advice! Pun intended... I would have never known that these guides exist and will definitely use them.

---------- Post added at 09:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:42 AM ----------

You'll make plenty of mistakes on your first build, but that's no reason not to use the blank that you want.
Every issue that you might have is correctable right up to the point when the epoxy or finish is applied.
And even then, with a bit of added effort you can still fix stuff.

That said I'd start with a kit as Mr mudholetaylor (who needs to be contacted about a sponsorship if he wishes to continue promoting mudhole dot com) suggested
Once you've got the first one under your belt, it's a lot easier to picture how you want to proceed.

Other than alignment issues with the guides and reel seat as well as poor thread wrapping what other types of issues would you expect from a new builder?

Also, I've read about thread tension in terms of not making it too tight or too loose. Is there a specific tension I should use? Are there ways of quantifying it in terms of pounds etc?

Thanks!

 

[Rip Tide]

Other than alignment issues with the guides and reel seat as well as poor thread wrapping what other types of issues would you expect from a new builder?

Also, I've read about thread tension in terms of not making it too tight or too loose. Is there a specific tension I should use? Are there ways of quantifying it in terms of pounds etc?

Thanks!

Putting a rod together is fairly simple but there's little things that might not be apparent until you're doing it.
Are you reaming out your cork just right ?. Do you have the proper thickness of bushing material under the reel seat ? Are your wraps all the same length ?
Little things
The thread tension ( and the step up onto the guide foot) is the hardest thing to get used to IMO.
You just have to do it to see. They can't be too loose or they'll come apart and they can't be too tight or you won't be able to adjust the alignment.
You have to do it to get a feel for it..
Some people say to practice on a dowel. I don't see the point of that at all.
Just "practice" on the blank, and if it's not up to your standards ... do it over.

 

[el jefe]

Other than alignment issues with the guides and reel seat as well as poor thread wrapping what other types of issues would you expect from a new builder?

Also, I've read about thread tension in terms of not making it too tight or too loose. Is there a specific tension I should use? Are there ways of quantifying it in terms of pounds etc?

For alignment of guides, turn the blank over so that the guide feet are on the opposite side of the blank from which are viewing the guides. It is often easier to see if guides are misaligned by what you can see peaking around the back of the blank.

And this is also where thread tension comes in. Basically, I use enough thread tension to keep slack out of the thread as it rolls off the bobbin. As long as you keep the thread tension reasonable, you can wiggle the guides to fix any misaligned ones, without having to re-wrap any of them.

 

[plecain]

If you've got a broken rod section laying around, it makes a good practice piece.

I have a $20 Eagle Claw rod that I broke the tip off of a few years back. It's now an interesting-looking rod. I've used it to learn how to make all kinds of fancy threadwork. Also, how to do marbling.

I even used it to see if I could strip it bare and start over. It works fine, but is 2" shorter than it was originally.

 

[Rip Tide]

For alignment of guides, turn the blank over so that the guide feet are on the opposite side of the blank from which are viewing the guides. It is often easier to see if guides are misaligned by what you can see peaking around the back of the blank.

And this is also where thread tension comes in. Basically, I use enough thread tension to keep slack out of the thread as it rolls off the bobbin. As long as you keep the thread tension reasonable, you can wiggle the guides to fix any misaligned ones, without having to re-wrap any of them.

I put a reel on the rod and balance the rod on the backs of 2 straight chairs.
Then you just push the guides down with a finger and thumb so that they’re all perfectly aligned on the underside.
A blind person could get it right every time.

 

[mike126]

Great information from everyone. The devil's in the details and this should help me avoid some mistakes.

Thoughts on a wrapping tool? I was thinking of building one or if the cheaper ones on the market ($40 or less) were ok.

 

[Rip Tide]

You probably don't want to do what I do.

I use one of these old Herter's wrapping jigs. $4.49 in the 1977 catalogue
Mostly for the tensioner and wrap with the blank in my lap
I don't usually use a dryer either, even though I have one. I turn mine by hand

 

[pnc]

First rod wrapped was by hand 35 yrs ago. Did on lap by hand for years. Friend gave me old Flex-Coat wrapping station (fake wood). Made me wish I had gotten one long ago. Makes things so easy. Two tensioners, multiple position side supports.
Second thing, I believe it was an 8w for fresh & salt. Getting good guides was mentioned. Spacing for guides can be had from company selling chosen blank. While the foot of a guide can make things simpler to wrap. The size of the guides can make line easier to cast. I've built or re-built every rod I have. Mostly so bigger guides than come on rods are used. Line flows better.
My 8w's start with 20 mm stripper. Then 16 and sometimes 10 before snake guides. Snakes 6, 5, 4, then 3's before XL tip.
Most of my fishing is saltwater now. But bigger guides used to help on rivers in PA. One thing to keep in mind about this is rod tubes. Too big with guides and rod tubes turn into white pvc from home cheapo w/caps.

......... pc

 

[silver creek]

I'm thinking about building a fly rod for the first time. Ideally I'd like to go with a Sage blank since I really like the way my Sage 4wt rod casts and have always liked a faster action rod. The rod I'd like to build is a 7wt or 8wt 9' for small mouth bass and saltwater. As a newbie, I have lots of questions but will try to keep them to a few...

First, given this is my first attempt should I invest in a Sage blank or one that is a letter less costly?

I'm looking to either make or buy a hand wrapper. Preferably one with a tensioner. I have a full woodshop (for my hobby) so building one is pretty simple. Recommendations for something simple but effective?

Do I need a dryer?

Any recommendations on where to purchase blanks, guides, reel seats, and grips etc?

Thanks for the advice...
Mike

I made my own rod wrapping station with a sewing machine thread tensioner.

Aliexpress.com : Buy Free shipping household sewing machine thread tension assembly from Reliable tension suppliers on ANDY 'S STORE
THREAD TENSION Assembly for JUKI DDL-5550,DDL- 8500, #B3111-552-0A0,229-45356 | eBay

I used an old barbeque rotisserie motor adapted to hold the end of the wrapped rod. I adapted one end of a crutch tip to hold rod handle for rotation and the other end attached to a wooden dowel to put into the rotisserie motor.

The rod blank is supported by "V" notches in the ends of 2X4 support blocks and the V end of the blocks covered with a layer of flannel to avoid scratching the blank The blank was also taped with a layer of masking tape so it would not be scratched where is rests and rotates on the supports

To align the guides temporarily tape them on blank with masking tape. Look down the rod blank with the guides on the BOTTOM. Look along the TOP of the rod blank and an equal amount of guide should be seen on each side of the blank. Very small amounts of deviation can be detected. This method is more accurate than looking along the top of the blank with the guides on the top.

When the guides are taped, leave the edges of the guide feet exposed so the thread can be started onto the guide foot. The the tape on that side can be removed.

Here is a similar plan with photos.

Building a wrapping jig for $15 or less. - Miscellaneous - Rod Building

 

[nevadanstig]

There's a ton of options here, and like anything else, it all depends on how much you want to spend.
If you want to do a sage the first time out, it's fine. Just keep in mind if you build more, you get better!
Wrapping stations. If you have a wood shop, you'll be better at building those sorts of things than me for sure. I built my first rod on a "station" that was nothing more than a cut up cardboard box with a fly tying bobbin as the tension device. I've since purchased a CRB station, I think it was around $30, it does it's job well and was cheap enough. Of course I don't really have woodworking tools or knowledge either, so... I would say if you're comfortable building one, go for it! There's a good satisfaction that comes with building your own stuff. Probably why you're contemplating building the rod in the first place!
As for where to purchase, I like mudhole. Pretty much everything you need in one stop.
Rod dryer, not needed, but definitely a convienence item. Without one, you'll need to sit there and turn by hand for 4 hours or so.
A few other pointers:
I like the prowrap colorfast thread. Doesn't require color preserver to be applied, one less step and thing to buy.
I recommend the prokote rod finish. Good pot life, crystal clear, easy to remove bubbles.
When applying the finish, more, thinner coats is much easier to get a good result with rather than fewer, thick coats.
As far as components go, I've had great luck with and been recommending American Tackle.
When wrapping, take your time, and don't be afraid to cut it off and try again. Specially if you are starting with a nice, expensive blank! Thread is cheap. Staring at gaps or runaway threads aren't!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

 

[mike126]

After thinking about this a little more and doing a lot of online research and video watching, I think I'm going to start with something less expensive first. My son wants a spinning rod so I was going to look over at MudHole and pick up a kit and build him one for the holidays. That should give me an opportunity to practice without messing up a $400 blank. I also ordered some thread and the guides for the Sage. I'll practice wrapping on an older fly rod.

This weekend I should have some time to make a wrapping stand in between finishing up my kitchen cabinet project (3 years in the making!). I was thinking of something along the lines of a Pacific Bay style. The thread tensioner should be easy to make.

Pacific Bay RodSmith Hand Rod Wrapper RW-JR | mudhole.com

Worse comes to worse I'll pick up a tensioner for a sewing machine and modify the wrapper.

I do kind of like having the dryer but will wait until I'm ready for that.

 

[nevadanstig]

After thinking about this a little more and doing a lot of online research and video watching, I think I'm going to start with something less expensive first. My son wants a spinning rod so I was going to look over at MudHole and pick up a kit and build him one for the holidays. That should give me an opportunity to practice without messing up a $400 blank. I also ordered some thread and the guides for the Sage. I'll practice wrapping on an older fly rod.

This weekend I should have some time to make a wrapping stand in between finishing up my kitchen cabinet project (3 years in the making!). I was thinking of something along the lines of a Pacific Bay style. The thread tensioner should be easy to make.

Pacific Bay RodSmith Hand Rod Wrapper RW-JR | mudhole.com

Worse comes to worse I'll pick up a tensioner for a sewing machine and modify the wrapper.

I do kind of like having the dryer but will wait until I'm ready for that.

Nice, your son will really charish that rod some day! Dont ve afraid to post pics and/or ask questions here along the way. Even though its a spin rod, the basic building principles are still the same, and Id love to see it come together, regardless if its a fly rod or not.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

 

[bish0p]

After thinking about this a little more and doing a lot of online research and video watching, I think I'm going to start with something less expensive first. My son wants a spinning rod so I was going to look over at MudHole and pick up a kit and build him one for the holidays. That should give me an opportunity to practice without messing up a $400 blank. I also ordered some thread and the guides for the Sage. I'll practice wrapping on an older fly rod.

One of the most difficult parts of rod building is applying thread finish so that it's even with no bubbles. I prefer to do two or even three light coats of finish.

It's good you'll make your first rod on a cheaper blank. I'd keep my eye out for holiday sales on blanks and components. If you find a Sage blank on sale buy it now.