10.5 ' blank

[dale1386]

Guys I'm wanting to start a new build and I'm new at building only built a couple rods and I need help with guide spacing......the blank is a 10 and half foot 2 weight 4 piece. Is there a formula for figuring correct guide placement on multi piece blanks? just thinking about what happens if a guide placement falls right where 2 sections join.
Thanks

 

[el jefe]

There are a few approaches you can take.

First, as you noted, there are formulae for guide placement, but I don't recall if they take into account how many pieces the rod is. You can always try the formula approach, and mark the guides to see where they fall. A small adjustment to guide placement to accommodate the ferrules is no big deal.

Second, you can tape the guides on and run a fly line through the guide train, and then flex the rod to see where it bends. The idea is to place the guides so that the rod bends smoothly, and there aren't big changes in direction of the fly line. Any large angles in the fly line formed at a guide means the guide needs to be moved until you get more of a smooth arc with the fly line. The rod will bend differently based on the taper, but you want it to bend smoothly, in concert with the fly line. Typically, the rod will bend more at the tip, so your guides need to be closer together there. Remember that the guides support the fly line where the line contacts the guides when the rod is flexed. You have to have adequate spacing so that the guides support a smoothly arced fly line. This is more of an artistic approach, and one I have not used. If you take this approach, I would caution to prepare your guide feet first, so that you do not scratch up your blank with the sharp edges of unprepped guide feet. If you use Snake Brand Universal guides, you can probably skip this step. Orthodontic rubber bands are better at holding on the guides than tape, but can be tricky. They come in different sizes, and the smaller ones work better on the thin tip section. I still double-over the smaller ones for the tip. I double them over the tips of Dr. Slick Bishop tweezers with the curved tips, hold the tips open as much as I can, and slide the blank through the rubber band, and then roll the rubber band off of the tweezers tips at the approximate point where the guide foot will go. I place all rubber bands on the section of blank first, and then put the guide near the rubber band, and roll the rubber band up the guide feet to hold the guide feet in place. These are easier to move than taping and re-taping, in my opinion. When you move the guide, I don't like sliding the rubber bands and guide together; I roll the rubber bands off the guide feet, move the guide, and then roll the rubber bands back on. I think that reduces the chances of snapping the blank. You will also need to find a way to affix the tip-top using this approach, either temporarily by taping it on, or gluing it on. Anyway, all of the formulae and all other approaches are designed to effect a properly supported fly line. On this approach, there is no right or wrong answer, and you can even add or subtract guides from the guide train to suit your preferences. WIth the rubber bands, too, once you have the guides where you want them, leave them and wrap the guide feet, cutting off the rubber band by gently pushing the edge of a razor blade over the rubber band, where it goes over the guide foot. The rubber band will break and fall or fly off. You'll have rubber bands all over the place, but you won't leave adhesive on the blank or guide feet.

The other way to figure guide spacing is to follow some charts, which you can find searching on the internet or find in the fly rod building books. For a 10.5' blank, there aren't a lot of charts out there. What I often do is cheat, and look up the rod spacing charts on Sage's website. Go to the bottom of their site, and click on Rod Building. Under Rod Family, look for the ESN (NEW FOR 2017), and choose the 3106 model, which is a 10.5' blank. Depending on where you got the blank, there may be something on that company's website about recommended guide spacing, which will take into account the ferrule placement. Many manufacturers have their guide spacing materials under the discussion forum part of their site.

 

[dale1386]

Thank you very helpful information.

 

[flav]

El jefe is right, there aren't many 10'6" blanks out there and info is scarce. The Sage website is a good option if you're building that rod as a single hander. If you're building it with a switch handle, though, your guide spacing will be a little different.

I use the Batson website (they offer a 10'8" switch blank) for guide spacing charts and a program I downloaded off the rod building forum. Then I tape on the guides, check how things look, and make any adjustments I feel necessary from there.

 

[dale1386]

yeah I've done a lot of browsing on this build project and like you say there's not much out there. I've decided on an even longer rod for a high sticking nymphing rod. 11' 3/4 weight med fast action from ye old fly shop out of FL. I'm wanting to use single foot guides with 2 stripping guides......seems like I'm seeing different numbers from different manufacturers as far as guide sizes. Does 1/0 sound right for the first 3 or 4 guides from the tip top? the plan is use half wells grip with short fighting butt.

 

[Lewis Chessman]

Hi, Dale, el jefe's account above is an excellent guide. I recently chose this method myself on my first build, an FLO #8.
Just to add a few of thoughts; the reason I used this technique was because I read a forum post by a UK rod maker re: guide charts: They're fine if you have that maker's blank model but otherwise .... well, all blank models flex differently from one another.

Having splined the rod, lightly glued the tip ring in place & marked the spline on the sections, I roughly taped on the rings. I then set the rod up at about a 60 degree angle, ran a line through it and clipped on a light weight just to add a touch of tension to the fly line alone.
I then used a large paper clip hung on the tip ring to suspend a plastic bag with another light weight in it. This places the strain on the blank not the taped rod rings and makes moving them later easier than if the load was directly on the fly line. (I do like the rubber band idea, btw.)

The light weight in the bag should only flex the tip section, so adjust those eyes as el jefe says above then add a bit more weight to the bag to flex the next section. Adjust the eyes there, add more weight and do the third section from the tip. Common sense should suggest where the stripper ring should go - often on that third section leaving the butt section ringless on a 4-piece, but that could depend on the handle you choose. If in doubt search on line for similar models and see where they've placed it as a guide.

By the end it should just ''look right'' to the eye, as smooth a curve as possible throughout.

I wouldn't worry about an ideal ring placement landing on a ferrule until it happens. At least with this method the whole thing is flexible until you're happy with it rather than feeling you've compromised some set rules.

One of the most liberating things I found about making my own rod was realising that nothing was set in stone. I whipped and epoxied the whole thing then decided I'd over-whipped the eyes and didn't like the thread colour either (I'd used a colour preserver on Garnet and Gold and it all looked rather '60s ). Three days later I stripped it back to a blank & handle and re-whipped it how I now knew I wanted it. I'm now really pleased with it cosmetically. As for in practice, well I tested it yesterday with a Barrio #8 WF and it's a rocket-launcher! I'm no great distance-caster but I exceeded my own expectations so I guess the above method does work and I'd happily employ it again.

Good luck with yours!
Lewis.

 

[el jefe]

Hi, Dale, el jefe's account above is an excellent guide. I recently chose this method myself on my first build, an FLO #8.
Just to add a few of thoughts; the reason I used this technique was because I read a forum post by a UK rod maker re: guide charts: They're fine if you have that maker's blank model but otherwise .... well, all blank models flex differently from one another.

Having splined the rod, lightly glued the tip ring in place & marked the spline on the sections, I roughly taped on the rings. I then set the rod up at about a 60 degree angle, ran a line through it and clipped on a light weight just to add a touch of tension to the fly line alone.
I then used a large paper clip hung on the tip ring to suspend a plastic bag with another light weight in it. This places the strain on the blank not the taped rod rings and makes moving them later easier than if the load was directly on the fly line. (I do like the rubber band idea, btw.)

The light weight in the bag should only flex the tip section, so adjust those eyes as el jefe says above then add a bit more weight to the bag to flex the next section. Adjust the eyes there, add more weight and do the third section from the tip. Common sense should suggest where the stripper ring should go - often on that third section leaving the butt section ringless on a 4-piece, but that could depend on the handle you choose. If in doubt search on line for similar models and see where they've placed it as a guide.

By the end it should just ''look right'' to the eye, as smooth a curve as possible throughout.

I wouldn't worry about an ideal ring placement landing on a ferrule until it happens. At least with this method the whole thing is flexible until you're happy with it rather than feeling you've compromised some set rules.

One of the most liberating things I found about making my own rod was realising that nothing was set in stone. I whipped and epoxied the whole thing then decided I'd over-whipped the eyes and didn't like the thread colour either (I'd used a colour preserver on Garnet and Gold and it all looked rather '60s ). Three days later I stripped it back to a blank & handle and re-whipped it how I now knew I wanted it. I'm now really pleased with it cosmetically. As for in practice, well I tested it yesterday with a Barrio #8 WF and it's a rocket-launcher! I'm no great distance-caster but I exceeded my own expectations so I guess the above method does work and I'd happily employ it again.

Good luck with yours!
Lewis.

Brilliant approach with your system of flexing the blank, incrementally increasing the weight.

I love this forum; there are all kinds of really smart, experienced, and creative people, and I am always learning something new.

 

[dale1386]

Thanks guys i'm soaking all this in. I've built 2 fiberglass rods but just used charts found online for guide placement and I'm definitely going to static test this build for better placement because I've been fly fishing 45 years and know pretty much how a rod suppose to load and feel and niether of the glass rods felt right to me and I don't even fish them much.

 

[Lewis Chessman]

That's a shame about the glass, Dale. Perhaps if you get good results with the static test method on this 10.5' you might consider checking one of the glass rods for a comparison between chart-stated placement and your own choice.
It would be easy enough to set up a glass rod as above, put a fair weight in the bag for a full flex and then see if you think the rings are already well placed or the line too angular. If the latter .... there's your next job!

 

[bish0p]

Another vote for static guide placement. There's no need to spine (spline) the blank. This issue has been discussed in rod building forums. Sage and St Croix don't build on the spine. Instead they build rods on the straightest axis.

 

[flav]

I built up an 11' 3/4 on a UHM12 blank from Angler's Roost that I think is very similar to the blank Ye Olde Fly Shop offers. I built mine as a two hander, but it's action is faster than I like, more like a single hand nymphing rod. If that's what you're using it for I think you'll be happy.

 

[dale1386]

Yes flav i'm just wanting a single handed high sticking nymph rod. Did you use single foot guides or snake guide? I'm wanting to use single foot guides and half wells grip with just a short fighting butt. How many guides did it take on your build?

 

[flav]

I used 10 guides, and used oversized snake guides because I feel loop to loop connections go through them easier. If you're building that rod for tight line nymphing, then single foot guides might be the way to go.

 

[ia_trouter]

You may find single foot guides more challenging to wrap for your very first build. I'm not telling you not to use them if that is what you want. Just sharing my experience. They were a real pain to secure while I was getting the wraps started. Ortho rubberbands might have helped. Temp taping them was tedious. I used single foots again on my third rod and it didn't seem so impossible. Snake guides will stiffen the rods action some of course. Noticeably IMO.

 

[dale1386]

Thanks for the info.