First build and having trouble , help please .

[jangles]

I am trying to build an RDP 7'6" 1wt . It has not been fun !

So far I have the reel seat and cork handle on . The eyes marked and ready to wrap . Here's the catch , I can do the wrap pretty darn good BUT after I lock it down and think it's done things go to pot . I start to burnish it and when going side to side with the curved side and turning the blank the part I just locked down , over a 1/4 inch comes unraveled . This has been happening for 3 days and I'm livid . Any ideas ? TIA .

 

[silver creek]

To me it looks like the guide is not sitting flat on the rod blank. So I think it is "lifting" the thread wrap allowing the buried end of the thread to come loose. Also you need to use rod wrapping thread so the thread grabs the one that is pulled under - your thread looks shiny.

I don't see that the guide foot has been prepped. The end of the guide foot does not appear to be tapered so there is a smooth transition to the rod blank. If there is a step off, you need to the taper the rod foot by prepping (filing down) the top of the guide foot so there is a smooth transition for the thread. Prepping brings the top of the guide foot closer to the rod blank so there is less lift of the thread and there is more thread on the rod blank.

Did you do this step:

YouTube

 

[flav]

Definitely do some prep work on your guides if you haven't, it makes things go a lot smoother. I go a little slow when I wrap and pack each wrap as I go so I seldom have to do any burnishing when I finish a guide wrap. I use my fly tying bodkin instead of a burnishing tool, that way I can keep it right were I'm wrapping and it doesn't block my view. It could also be that your thread tension is too loose. You should be able to move the guides a little if they need adjusting, but you shouldn't be able to wiggle them.

 

[jangles]

To me it looks like the guide is not sitting flat on the rod blank. So I think it is "lifting" the thread wrap allowing the buried end of the thread to come loose. Also you need to use rod wrapping thread so the thread grabs the one that is pulled under - your thread looks shiny.



I don't see that the guide foot has been prepped. The end of the guide foot does not appear to be tapered so there is a smooth transition to the rod blank. If there is a step off, you need to the taper the rod foot by prepping (filing down) the top of the guide foot so there is a smooth transition for the thread. Prepping brings the top of the guide foot closer to the rod blank so there is less lift of the thread and there is more thread on the rod blank.

Did you do this step:

YouTube

The thread is color fast Pro Wrap from Mud Hole . The guide foot is a stripping guide and has been filed down , maybe not far enough but the same thing happens with the snake eye guides . I will file them down some more . TIA

 

[jangles]

Definitely do some prep work on your guides if you haven't, it makes things go a lot smoother. I go a little slow when I wrap and pack each wrap as I go so I seldom have to do any burnishing when I finish a guide wrap. I use my fly tying bodkin instead of a burnishing tool, that way I can keep it right were I'm wrapping and it doesn't block my view. It could also be that your thread tension is too loose. You should be able to move the guides a little if they need adjusting, but you shouldn't be able to wiggle them.

I may not be wrapping over the tag end far enough and from a video I watched last night I think I may be loosening my wrap by tugging the loop parallel with the rod instead of towards me , is this possible ? Yes the feet have been prepped but on the stripping guide in the picture the foot is quite high as can be seen . TIA

 

[silver creek]

Use thin strong thread like GSP super line for the loop thread. Start wrapping earlier with loop thread so you will wrap over the loop more times by the time you need to pull the wrapping thread under. Then pull not directly parallel but at an angle so you maintain tension on the wrapping thread and pull it under the previous wraps.

 

[jangles]

Thanks Silver , I'll see if I can find some . Here's another pic of the stripping guide . Getting better but not where I want to be for a finish .

 

[knotjoe]

I use my fly tying bodkin instead of a burnishing tool, that way I can keep it right were I'm wrapping and it doesn't block my view.

I don't use burnishing tools, either, preferring to work as I go and ensure quality of wrap during the process. Burnishing seems to increase the chances of contaminants and I prefer the thread to be "un-mooshed" for epoxy application. U40 Duragloss penetrates better for me with unmolested thread wraps, I like it to soak into the thread as much as possible.

As for the unraveling business, Jangles, don't be afraid to tighten the start and finish by pulling a bit on the tag end under the wraps. I never proceed until I've done so and leave start tags extra long to "tug snug" those critical catch wraps.

If you pull the tag at the right angle, especially at the end wrap, it can be tightened without sneaking and unwinding due to tension. I find it hard to get starts & finishes snug just by typical wrap tension, so I like the tag snugging technique. Ends are tough, they have to be loose enough for tag pull under, but then they can be too loose afterward. Just tug & snug after a clean pull under.

 

[Rip Tide]

Use thin strong thread like GSP super line for the loop thread. Start wrapping earlier with loop thread so you will wrap over the loop more times by the time you need to pull the wrapping thread under. Then pull not directly parallel but at an angle so you maintain tension on the wrapping thread and pull it under the previous wraps.

I use dental floss loops and have at least 3 ready to go in case I drop one at a critical moment
They're perfect for the job.... flat

Pop-cycle stick as a burnishing tool

 

[ia_trouter]

You have been given good advice here. All I have to add is my first rod was a real struggle. With practice it suddenly gets much easier. You'll wrap a guide properly in a minute or two so hang in there.

 

[jangles]

Thanks guys , I'm utilizing all the advice here . I am in no hurry to get it finished as I ordered another and it should be built and here before I leave for Montana Aug 1 . I want my first rod to be as good as I can get it and I am my own worst enemy , picky wise . Thanks again .

 

[el jefe]

Thanks guys , I'm utilizing all the advice here . I am in no hurry to get it finished as I ordered another and it should be built and here before I leave for Montana Aug 1 . I want my first rod to be as good as I can get it and I am my own worst enemy , picky wise . Thanks again .

Here's the thing about that...you know where all of your mistakes are. You will probably think your work left something to be desired. And the next factory fly rod you will look at with a rod builder's eye, and notice all of the mistakes that escaped your notice before. You will see gaps in thread on guides, you will find cork with filler, hook keepers that are askew, gaps at the winding checks where they meet the grip. And that is on the rods that are renowned for having the best finish work. And then you will realize that even with your imperfections, you do a better job. The one area where the factories are pretty good is the application of the finish over the thread wraps, and that is due mostly to the costly equipment that they use. But you will get there, even with the finish (and you can always fix mistakes with finish, too). It won't take long at all for you to turn out a superior product, with component packages superior to the factory offerings.

 

[jangles]

That's what my wife keeps saying . I guess finish will smooth things out a little . They sent me medium viscosity thread finish but I read somewhere that I should be using the thin stuff . Care to help me out on this . TIA

 

[el jefe]

That's what my wife keeps saying . I guess finish will smooth things out a little . They sent me medium viscosity thread finish but I read somewhere that I should be using the thin stuff . Care to help me out on this . TIA

When you say medium viscosity thread finish, you mean the finish that goes over the thread windings, correct? What brand and type did they send? I.e., is it Flex Coat Lite, for instance?

 

[nevadanstig]

Colorfast pro wrap is great thread, I pretty much use it exclusively. That's not the problem.
I would guess your wraps are either too loose, you're not putting the pull through in soon enough (not enough locking wraps) or both. You could also be burnishing too hard.
Burnishing is just to get the small gaps out of the wraps. If you've done a good job wrapping, you should only have to pack in the outside edges a bit and maybe a bit where the thread transitions from blank to guide foot.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[jangles]

el jefe ,
Yes for the threads . They sent me Pro Kote rod building finish , medium viscosity . Thanks again.


nevadanstig

I ordered a bunch of size A Pac Bay thread today . I have stopped burnishing altogether so hopefully I'll reduce my problems . I think my other and worst problem is I'm cutting the tag end too short so I can hide it under the wrap . Sometimes this works for me . Thank you .

 

[el jefe]

Jangles, you can usually thin out the rod finish with some denatured alcohol. I have not used Pro Kote, but typically the higher viscosity is used to cover in one coat of finish, which I never do, simply because I have too many imperfections to fix after the first coat.

If you thin, you might want to test it. I would not go more than a 1:1:1 on the thinning (the first two parts being the two parts of the rod finish), and you're probably better at 2:2:1, and see how that works. The key is being able to thin it for soaking into the threads better, while still letting it set up when drying. After you do the first coat, you can use a razor blade and cut off all of the stalagmites caused by thread furs and tags, and then put the second (and usually final) coat over. To cut off the stalagmites, I use a double-sided razor blade, because you can bend it to match the curvature of the rod blank. DO NOT PUSH ON THE SIDE OF THE BLADE OPPOSITE THE END YOU ARE CUTTING WITH, OR IT WILL END UP PARTIALLY EMBEDDED IN THE TIP OF YOUR FINGER, NEATLY SEPARATING THE FLESH AS IT SLICES DOWN. Don't ask how I know...

 

[flav]

I've used ProKote, it's pretty good stuff, very clear, flexible, and levels nicely. No need to thin it out, it soaks into the thread just fine as is. On your first couple rods I'd just stick with a medium viscosity epoxy till you get the techniques down.

 

[ia_trouter]

Not to cause paranoia but my first kit did not cure properly and it was a mess I still haven't corrected. I've successfully mixed gallons of epoxies in my life so it wasn't user error. What every you use, I'd suggest a small test batch so you know the time required to cure. I used Prokote that I am guessing must have surpassed it's shelf life.

 

[dennyk]

Jangles are you using a motorized rotisserie for applying & drying your finish? I've used this in the past with great results. No runs whatsoever. I made mine from and old grill rotisserie motor and spins at a very low speed.
Hope this helps. Good Luck!

Denny