Color Preservative ?

[Ard]

This may be helpful to some. I posted this to a thread wherein the builder expressed some level of surprise and disappointment that his finished rod wraps didn't turn out as he had hoped.

It has been a long time since I applied silks to a rod but somethings never change. A good step to take when preparing to dress threads to rods is to have a piece of similarly colored dowel rod to test the wraps on. If the blanks are dark colored you can just paint the dowel rod so that it is close to the color of the blank in use.

Once you have your test piece you simply wrap it with the various threads intended for the build then apply the material you intend to finish them with. You will see at this point whether or not you will need to use a 'color preserver' treatment on the threads prior to doing the actual rod.

Does that make sense?

BTW. I mentioned dowel rod as a test blank because I was dressing bamboo not graphite.

 

[ravenbc]

Another option instead of wrapping on a dowel is to do a practice wrap on the butt of the blank where the reel seat or grip will cover. This way you will be an exact result. Once you have a desired result, just strip your practice wrap and any damage will be covered by grip etc.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

 

[jangles]

So what is the best CP for ProWrap thread ? I want to try it again on another rod .

 

[dennyk]

Jangles , I'm not familiar with Pro-Wrap thread, have you ever considered the No Color Preservative (NCP) type threads?

Denny

 

[jangles]

Pro-Wrap is a name of thread that Mudhole sells . I use NCP almost exclusively but the Tiger wrap I have is not NCP . So I'm wondering which CP is the best for Nylon thread .

 

[reels]

Not an expert here, but I've seen a few seasoned builders recommend to not use CP on wraps.
They claim it impacts the adhesion between the guide, final epoxy, wraps and blank; something you won't notice until you have to repair/replace that wrap.
For that reason, I personally don't use it.

That said, if you want to use a CP it would seem the PROSEAL CP may be a choice; isn't it made by the same manufacture as PROWRAP?
If in doubt, I'd just email or call PROPRODUCTS and see what they say.

 

[Maker 85541]

I make bamboo fly rods and use silk thread exclusively for wraps. It depends on the look I'm going after as to how I preserve the wraps. I typically make test wraps in the area that will eventually be covered by the grip or reel seat on the bamboo blank. When going for a traditional transparent look no CP is used. The color of the silk can change drastically once the wraps are epoxied and rod is dipped in varnish. If your after a specific look then testing wrap color is a must in order to see the final color when not using CP. If on the other hand your looking for the true opaque color of the silk thread to remain then a CP is required. I've tested a few CP's and what I've settled on is Aero Gloss Clear. It is the only thing I've found that keeps the silk color close to true. I use 3-4 coats at a 50/50 mix of thinner and Aero Gloss and then another 3-4 coats of 100% Aero Gloss. This is followed by 2-3 coats of epoxy. These are all "THIN" coats. After drying tips get 2 dips and butts get 3 dips in the varnish dip tubes. This has worked well for me with zero guide issues.
Mike

 

[Sirgrumps]

Jangles , I'm not familiar with Pro-Wrap thread, have you ever considered the No Color Preservative (NCP) type threads?

Denny

Those threads help, but the color still changes.

ironically, two rods I built as gifts from a buddy and his wife, one needed a section replaced.
fortunately, I still had the original spools of thread.
i sent to my buddy, who replaced the guides. They were NCP thread, he didn’t use color preserver. I guess i did, as the threads didn’t match.

 

[bonefish41]

J...I use mud hole's CP...when I use straight nylon and do not want the bleed through look of no CP on untreated nylon. Your tiger thread that's a variegated style thus CP?? I've never had any adhesion issues with thread failure using CP and the various two part finishes on fly rods; however, on bluewater conventional, either NCP or regular nylon, I do not use CP because of significantly greater drag/flex pressures on the blank/guides...

 

[Bambooflyguy]

Old thread but I ran out of vintage Gudebrod CP, and used one coat of Threadmaster One watered down on some vintage variegated green/black nylon thread. I finished the wraps with one thin coat Threadmaster of high build. This rod is a combo of bamboo and fiberglass, the color stayed the same on both, happy with the results.

 

[snakesurf]

I just use the Flex Coat one, if I use any at all. It is the easiest to find, at least for me. On fly rods, I typically do not use it, but I do not believe it will weaken the adhesion to the blank. I have pulled guides off blanks with it and without and there is no noticeable difference. If you applied CP and get spots in the wrap it is because some type of oil or solvent got on the wraps prior to the epoxy and the CP was not able to penetrate the thread in that area. Solvents and oil will mix with the epoxy resin but not the water based Color Protector.

 

[Merkexpress]

I second the idea above about doing test wraps on the butt section before adding the grip or reel seat. This has saved me quite a bit of headache when choosing thread colors. I have a few broken rod sections (thanks to king salmon) that use as a template as well.

I have a epic 580 that was my first high end build that I didn’t use CPon and it turned “okay” but not what I wanted… Just did a overall recently and learned from my mistakes

 

[spoonplugger1]

Some thoughts, the good CPs are all acrylics no real differences in formulae between them except the amount of acrylic in the mix, it is in itself every bit as good an adhesive as epoxy finish which is a potting resin, in no way formulated as an adhesive and it sure proves that in anyway you choose. If you want something anchored down in the finish arena Permagloss 1 part finish is your choice. It will produce no thread wrap rods if you choose.
Butyrate dope like the Aero Gloss product is a finish used on fabric airplanes, while building you have to take into account it's inherent shinkage that is produced, also it will not adhere to the polyester fabric that is now used instead of cotton due to quality issues in the new cotton materials. So my question is will it adhere to any of our synthetic threads since it will not adhere to polyester fabric and if it won't how can it be an effective CP for anything other than natural threads like silk? Secondly, will the known shrinkage cause damage to a tubular rod? They had to engineer the layup of the fabrics on the planes to take into account for the shrinkage as the finish drys, was it to protect the fabric or the plane's structure?

 

[okaloosa]

forget the color preservative...go clear!

 

[fatbillybob]

okal,

What thread did you use? Fly tying mono thread? That's a slick look! I have never seen that.

 

[okaloosa]

okal,

What thread did you use? Fly tying mono thread? That's a slick look! I have never seen that.

those arent my builds. i havent built a fly rod in 38 yrs but i used to just use silk thread with no preservative to get transparant wraps. i dont remember what i put on threads but it certainly wasnt the thicker two part epoxy that i used on my cobia spinning rods.

 

[pgbuilt1]

Myself anyway , I wrap mostly silk , never use CP , most always a spar finish on wraps , and as earlier stated in the thread , test wraps/finish on the blank where reel seat/grip will cover as such , many builders I know and speak with like the Fuji poly thread , I have used it with no CP , it winds nicely , takes finish well , seems pretty durable , might be worth a try for you with some build down the road ?

 

[Mike Hubbert]

I agree with the premise that it does not attach near as well to the rod using a color preservative. I use sometimes and will extend the epoxy finish a slightly further onto the blank in front of and behind the wraps (1/8”). Just my hopes to anchor the wrap. As to blotching and other color problems, I do believe that thread size, manufacturer and greasy hand are the culprit here. I stick to what I think is the best silk to threads such as Kimono and 100wt. I have had great luck with the flexcoat product, diluting by 25% with distilled water on the first 3 coats and final 3 coats no dilution.

 

[taoski]

I'm on the fence about Flexcoat CP. I find that it darkens the shade of the thread by a notch or two. Sometimes that's a good thing, depending on what you're looking for. The absolute clearest CP I've found is Threadmaster Chormaseal. It leaves the color as true as the spool, and retain the natural luster on silk. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be available any more. I think Mudhole bought out Theadmaster, then introduced ProSeal as a replacement, but it's not the same.

@Mike Hubbert , do you have experience using Kimono on graphite without CP? I've found that it goes almost completely black even with medium shades of thread and blank, mores so than nylons or even Pearsalls. Wondering if you've tried it and get similar results.

 

[Mike Hubbert]

Most fly rods I do, I do not use CP. I agree that light color will show the rod color with a tint of the light color shade you use, so basically grey semi-translucent. How ever the photo shows the threads on the spool, no CP and my primary finish is CTS Crystal Coat. So agree that silk especially Kimono 100wt is very transparent. Second photo is Kimono silk 100wt on another Iconoglass rod with the threads shown, 8 coats of flexcoat CP. I think the color was retained pretty well.