"Antique" Lamiglas Fly Rod Blank, 9½' AFTM 8/9

[Turtle Not]

Can anyone remember Lamiglas' first fly rods and blanks? {I may be giving away my age here :)} Well, they were what one might call "reverse-ferrule" or bottom-over-top – as opposed to today's standard top-over-bottom – rods/blanks, i.e., the ferrule of the tip section was the "male" part of the combined, male-female ferrule, which is just the opposite, as indicated, of what one normally sees today.

I have such an animal that I am willing to sell if the price is right – and it would have to be a heckuva good price, since this is a collector's item of sorts – but I have no idea what I should ask for it. I have attached a tip-top (an over-sized Pacific Bay snake-guide tip-top, glued with fast-setting, two-component adhesive) in order to protect the tip section, but this can easily be warmed up with a cigarette lighter and removed with no damage to the blank.

If anyone has an educated guess as to what this rare blank might be worth, please speak up (NB: I am looking for "expert", or qualified, opinions only – please hold your peace if you all you have to offer is generalized, "Dear Abby" type input!).

 

[Frank Whiton]

Hi Turtle Not,

Welcome to the forum. Please don't use a bold font in your complete post.



Frank

 

[Turtle Not]

Howdy Frank,

I wasn't aware that the font was all-bold - I chose the Comic Sans MS font in a slightly larger size (4), which is probably what made it seem to be bold. The CSMS font is rather dark to begin with (which is one of the reasons why I like it), and the larger the size, the darker the given font. I chose only Bold emphasis for the eyes of the simple smiley, like so: :). I tend to be careful about such things, being reasonably versant in both HTML and good writing practices in general.

It was something of a disappointment to discover that the first reply to my query was not regarding its content, but its form! I hope for better luck in future.


Regards,
Turtle Not

 

[Rip Tide]

There's a reason why they don't make butt over tip ferrules anymore
(the exception would be the $19 EagleClaw Featherlite)
They make for a stiff butt and soft tip.
I could be wrong, but I doubt that your Lami has that much collector value

Signed, Abby

 

[Turtle Not]

Dear Rip Tide/ Abby :),

Thanks for your input. Your comment suggests that the Lamiglas rod blank, if it has any value at all, would be precisely as a collector's item (collector's items do not necessarily have to be excellent products, though I understand that Edsels don't sell well... ). Actually I met a chap in Sweden once who was fishing with a 15' Lamiglas salmon rod that had reverse ferrules, and it had an amazingly good, albeit slightly stiff, action, not the wet noodle of a top you suggested. I was therefore hoping that my blank might be of the same ilk. I guess I will just put it on eBay with a high start price and see if I get any responses. If that fails, I may just end up building it as a saltwater or reservoir rod and see if it has any merit, though a 9½ 8/9 would probably give me tennis elbow in a week, especially if it has a hard, unforgiving action.

 

[mojo]

Go to Fiberglass Fly Rodders forum. You can get some great information there on glass rods. Especially Lami's

 

[Turtle Not]

Thanks, Mojo, except that this is not a glass blank! It is a G1000 Graphite Series blank, as I believe I indicated, though I may have neglected to mention the series number.

My own gut feelings (well, actually gut mixed with some gray matter, as will be seen below) regarding the why and wherefore for no longer making the butt-over-tip ferrule was that it could be either of two very different reasons (to be revealed in a jiffy) than the reason given above, if not a combination of both, these reasons being:

1) Butt-over-tip ferrules are quite possibly either weak (meaning that the ferrule itself is prone to bust) or just too strong/stiff (meaning that either the tip section or the butt section snaps because the ferrule is unyielding); or

2) Butt-over-tip ferrules are expensive to fabricate, that is, the blank section with the ferrule (the butt section in a 2-pc such blank), due to the ferrule, which interrupts the otherwise continuous taper one would find in a tip-over-butt ferrule, is a lengthy fabrication process, and since time is money...

I tend to believe that the second reason given above is the primary reason why the butt-over-tip ferrule was abandoned. You can probably well imagine that if one begins wrapping the flat graphite "ribbon" at the tip end, working with the proper angle, or overlap, one can roll the entire blank in one uninterrupted flow (I believe that at Lamiglas, the "ribbon" is started by hand, thereafter a machine turns the metal gizmo on which the "ribbon" is spiraled). The butt-over-tip ferrule defies this speedy wrapping method, and it is therefore most likely for this reason that Lamiglas chose to abandon it.

This, I believe, is a more scientific conjecture than the bombastically categorical, "There's a reason why..." approach, and science, though not the only path to knowledge, is a better path than opinion/belief - however strongly felt - which is why ye old Greeks came up with the syllogism as a means of expanding man's knowledge based on that which was already known, plus the application of a bit of logic.


Yours,
Sherlock

 

[mojo]

Quote"Can anyone remember Lamiglas' first fly rods and blanks? {I may be giving away my age here } Well, they were what one might call "reverse-ferrule" or bottom-over-top – as opposed to today's standard top-over-bottom – rods/blanks, i.e., the ferrule of the tip section was the "male" part of the combined, male-female ferrule, which is just the opposite, as indicated, of what one normally sees today".

Turtlenot, when you say Lamiglas's first fly rods and blanks, and the disclaimer about showing your age, sounds like your talking fiberglass, since Lami's been building them since the '50's and graphite didn't come around until the '70's. Your model (G1000) is still being manufactured today. It's just a first gen graphite. The blank sells for $100
And I apologize for not seeing anywhere you mention of it being graphite. I fact, I still don't see anywhere it before your last post mentioned it..

It's just not a good design or a good way of building a sectioned rod. Plus the one's(butt over tip) I've seen and cast -very few- hinge very badly.

 

[Turtle Not]

My apologies, Mojo! I thought I had mentioned that the blank was of graphite, but I see that I didn't. I knew that Lamiglas also made glass rods and blanks, but I thought that they launched the company building graphite, then added on the glass, though of course if they were around before the advent of graphite, the reverse sequencing would apply.

In fact, I have a 7½ft AFTM 5/6 5-pc in S-Glass from Lamiglas that is a bit too rubbery in the tip - I prefer my old Fenwick regular glass 8½ft AFTM 6/7 4-pc (I believe it is) which is quite "parabolic", but without being soft in the tip. But in calm (no wind) conditions, if I get the timing right, I can make a very long cast with the Lamiglas "noodle-tip" :), though fishing and casting are not always close companions.

I'll probably end up building a rod from the blank - it would be a shame to discover that it was a four leaf clover, after I had parted with it. I can always sell it as a finished rod if it is too much rod for my modest stature.


Turtle Not

 

[Riverphish]

This has nothing to do with the rod in question, but I've been building my bamboo rods with a butt over tip bamboo ferrule. They actually are stronger than the tip over butt that I've seen and cast, and feel and respond like a one-piece rod. (Bamboo rods with nickel silver ferrules are generally butt over tip as well... but the metal creates a "dead zone" to me.) The Lamiglass rod may be a relic of the design. Normally they used a "spigot" type attachment to join the sections, is that the case with yours?
There are several bamboo builders that are rethinking the bamboo ferrule configurations these days... and eventually we'll come up with the best method to suit that purpose, too.

best,
Mike

 

[Turtle Not]

That's doggone interesting! I had completely forgotten that cane rods have butt-over-tip ferrules, and I have three of them! I can tell you that when I cast the 15 Lamiglas salmon rod (same early G1000 graphite series as my blank) there on Mörrums Åen ("River") in Sweden (I was living in Denmark at the time), I was very impressed, because that rod had power, not at all the traditional English Spey action, though it was a bit heavy. I might also add that when the American double-handed rods from Sage and Loomis made their debut in Europe, they were pretty snappy, tip-action rods that were as unlike the soft Spey rods as a good dryfly rod is unlike a good wetfly rod. They sparked a revolution in double-handed casting, with odd-ball casts like the underhand cast and in general the use of shooting heads, which is something that would have caused an old-school Spey rod aficionado to roll in his grave!

 

[mojo]

This has nothing to do with the rod in question, but I've been building my bamboo rods with a butt over tip bamboo ferrule. They actually are stronger than the tip over butt that I've seen and cast, and feel and respond like a one-piece rod. (Bamboo rods with nickel silver ferrules are generally butt over tip as well... but the metal creates a "dead zone" to me.) The Lamiglass rod may be a relic of the design. Normally they used a "spigot" type attachment to join the sections, is that the case with yours?
There are several bamboo builders that are rethinking the bamboo ferrule configurations these days... and eventually we'll come up with the best method to suit that purpose, too.

best,
Mike

Nice looking cane rods Mike. I think butt over tip in bamboo is quite a bit different than graphite. About coming up with a different configurations on ferrules, what's coming around the corner? How would you improve on a new style ferrule?

 

[Riverphish]

Hey, mojo...

I've been looking at the Italian maker's "streamline" ferrules and a Swiss maker that uses a "spigot" attachment that allows for a smooth transition from butt to tip. (There's virtually no noticeable transition, except for the seam.)

Beautiful looking rods, but I'm into the building end and I want it to be the most ergonomic on my end as well. If I can offer a bamboo that is BOTH ergonomic in production AND beautiful in design... I'm the better for it. (I think... :icon_mrgr)

Thanks for the comment about my rods... I devilishly try... :icon_evil :icon_bigg

best, Mike

 

[mojo]

Hey, mojo...

I've been looking at the Italian maker's "streamline" ferrules and a Swiss maker that uses a "spigot" attachment that allows for a smooth transition from butt to tip. (There's virtually no noticeable transition, except for the seam.)

Beautiful looking rods, but I'm into the building end and I want it to be the most ergonomic on my end as well. If I can offer a bamboo that is BOTH ergonomic in production AND beautiful in design... I'm the better for it. (I think... :icon_mrgr)

Thanks for the comment about my rods... I devilishly try... :icon_evil :icon_bigg

best, Mike

Sorry for such a late reply. It'd be interesting to see the Swiss "spigot" ferrules and compare them to a super-Z in a side by side casting test. Blindfolded too.:icon_cool