rod choice vs. cost

[bloodhound]

The other day the buy a nice rod bug bit me and i started looking at a 9' 4wt scott A3, 9' 4wt winston bIIx, along with a few orvis's. Then it hit me why do i need to pay 2-3 car payments worth on one fly rod when it is a rod i will be using 2 weeks a year on the bighorn, now i cast the A3, bIIx, and orvis T3 and yeah the winston is sweet and the A3 is very suttle for the price but for the price my new forecast 7'6" 3wt is as nice a cast or better (for me anyway) as rods i test cast at 3-4 times the price, on a similar note i almost hated the redfly2 untill i put sa nymph taper on it and now it is a sweet nymphing machine. just throwing thought's out as i have saved so much money by not jumping to a rod priced so insane that in my eyes is a waste of my hard earned dollars.

 

[Rip Tide]

The six rods that I use the most, one 10wt, two 8wts, one 6wt, and two 4wts cost a total of $265
All close-outs, used, and homerolled.
The most I've ever paid for a rod was $150 and that was a close-out at 65% off
and I once waited 3 years for a certain rod that I wanted to come to down to what I thought was a reasonable price

 

[webrx]

I am like Rip Tide, I don't buy top dollar rods, my most expensive is a Redington FSF that was originally 300 but I bought on close out at Sierra Trading Post for $90. I know that some people really like the good rods, and if I had unlimited funding, I would probably own a couple - I am sure they are worth the money, and hey, if you can afford it and want it then get it. But for me, my skills are better suited by buying a half way decent rod and a good line to go on it. I think someone said in another post, a good line will make a decent rod cast well, where a bad line on a good rod brings it down to mediocre status. Buy a rod you like to cast, at a cost you can afford and put a decent line on it. When you find yourself in a position that money does not matter, or you have saved up enough to get that "dream rod", then go for it. I don't cast well enough to really feel the difference yet, but someday maybe....

d

 

[mcnerney]

Dave: Well said, my thoughts exactly! If you can afford a top of the line rod then go for it, for the rest of us, buy what you can afford and put a really good line on it. I usually buy my rods on EBay, some used some new but all at a significant discount.

Larry

 

[jpbfly]

Like my friend Larry,I've bought all my rods on e bay...and I've bought some for friends too...I'm patient and sometimes lucky...

 

[Jimmie]

Like those above I made choices based on reviews of our members then shopped for the best deals. If I had to describe my rods I'd say lower end of the top named rods. At my experience level it's piece of mind to have the warranty working for you.
There are some reasonably priced rods that get great reviews.

 

[MoscaPescador]

I'm part of the crowd that owns all premium rods. As a disclaimer, I work in the fly fishing industry. I can get my gear at a reduced cost, but I was paying full retail long before I worked in the business and will pay full retail after I leave the business.

The easy tactic in the business is to get the customer to agree that cost should equate to how often the rod will be used. It is honest, and it works for just about everyone. A person who is going to fish five days a year may fish fine with a price point outfit. That's why TFO, Ross Worldwide, and Redington sell $150 outfits so well. Whereas a person who fishes 52+ days a year most likely will want the best equipment.

There is a counter arguement to that tactic. Some people may want the best equipment that could make their fishing experiences more enjoyable whether they fish five days or 52+ days per year. If a rod can make one cast further, have the line track straighter, and present the fly better, most likely that person will pay more for the better rod. Some people will pay $700 for a Sage Xi3 8 weight instead of the going discounted rate of $490 for the discontinued Xi2 because they know the new technology will make casting more enjoyable.

Consumers can buy gear through a variety of avenues. If you buy price pointed product through a chain store, that's fine. If discontinued product works for you through a specialty shop or a clearance retailer (like STP), that's great. If you can justify spending top dollar at a specialty shop, more power to you. What's important is that you have what you want, so you can go fish.

MP

 

[FrankB2]

I was in a Main Line Philadelphia fly shop a few years ago, and a customer walked in saying he needed an outfit for some trip to Florida. The salesman grabbed a top of the line Sage, best reel, line and backing. The grand total was around $1,300. He paid, and was out the door in about 10 minutes. Another time I was in the same shop, and a customer came in wanting to get into fly tying. This was about 6 years ago, and I knew the salesman. He sold the guy a $350 Dyna-King, just about every imaginable tool, cape, Whiting 100 packs, threads, hooks, etc. That was close to $1,000, and when the guy went into the restroom, I asked if he was nuts. The salesman told me that this customer had spent a few grand in one visit several times, and if he had offered him anything less, the guy would have been insulted.

I like nice rods, and nice rods do make fishing more enjoyable. I would say that the St. Croix Avid is a nice rod, and relatively affordable. Most rods that cost less have some cosmetic issues, are heavy, etc. My wife and I do not live beyond our means, but like to have nice gear. We seldom go out to eat, and that saves a ton of money by itself. We don't have closets full of clothes, and our cars are paid off. We only had one kid, and he's in the USAF, so living expenses are rather low. We also didn't run up enormous
credit card debt ever in our lives, and frankly don't use them. I buy my vehicles used (cash), and the savings there makes splurging on other items painless. Etc......

 

[bloodhound]

maybee what i mean to say is, does buying say a orvis helios, winston xxxxx,
or a sage z-axis make me a better fly fisherman or help me catch anymore fish than say a berkley cherrywood, or some other cheaply made rod.
on that note i have been looking at rods and if i were to spend that kind of money for a rod it would be bamboo, or some exotic wood handle piece of perfection never to be used and put above the mantle in a nice way. i have rod envy every time i go to fort smith and i see some guy walking in off his plane and buying 3000-4000 dollars in gear and then having a guide show him how to fish and where to fish. hours later, stream side with my $100 or less rod landing my 3rd-4th 18-22" brown i wonder where the desire to spend gobbs and gobbs on rods comes in. i am not saying that if i had money coming out of every orrifice i wouldnt be curious and partake but it seem such a travesty to think that trout (or whatever your vice is) give a care what name is on your rod blank, how much you spend, ect ect. like walleye jigging i have particular taste in my rod, super light, very sensative (can tell if my minnow is there or not) 6'6"- 7'6" to get over the edge of the boat in comfort. so i understand that there are qualities that most high tier rods have that most dont. with that i will close on the note that i agree 100% with Frank. just wondering where the purist fishing ideal and consumer ideal met and whats next.

 

[Rip Tide]

A few years ago, I was invited to a weekend of fishing at a private trout club.
The other guests were a FFF board member, a well known tyer of classic salmon flies, a bamboo rod builder, a fly fishing author, and 2 fly club presidents.
And then there was me.
After dinner the first night everyone went out on the porch for bourbon, cigars, and to string up their rods for the morning session.
There was nice rods out including a Leonard, a Goodwin-Granger, some custom bamboo, and some high end plastic.
I strung up a Fenwick and then for a second rod I chose my $13 Walmart special.
I had brought other, better rods but for what ever reason, I needed to fish that Wallyworld rod. So that's what I did.

Guess who was high stick that next day :teef:

 

[BigCliff]

maybee what i mean to say is, does buying say a orvis helios, winston xxxxx,
or a sage z-axis make me a better fly fisherman or help me catch anymore fish than

Not likely.

say a berkley cherrywood, or some other cheaply made rod.

GAWD, that's taking it a bit far, don't you think?

Its quite true that one can make gear that's not the top of the line work just fine. I own two top end (though now dated) rods, and honestly only one of which am I super thrilled with. I also own cheaper rods that I fish regularly, some of which I'm fairly thrilled with, and some not. I only own one in the Cherrywood ballpark, and I'm not even sure its worth what I paid for it. (roughly equivalent to a pizza)

Here's the moral of my tale: the cheapest tools for any endeavor are often frustrating to the point of interfering with the job at hand. The nicest generally are the greatest pleasure to use.

Buy the top shelf and you'll definitely enjoy using it, but don't if it will relegate you to ten weeks of ramen and saltines. If you want to go cheaper, I say buy a Redington or a StCroix Imperial and go give it frequent work outs. Listen to what its telling you and you'll likely soon get along just fine.

 

[Ard]

Bloodhound,

Some may take issue with what I am about to say but...................

I can cast equally well with any of the rods you have listed "Or" a cheap no name graphite stick.

I once was privileged to witness a skeet shooting competition between a friend named Charlie Spangler (deceased) and a well known circuit shooter who shot with a custom built Perazzi gun. Long story short; Charlie ran 125 targets and shot doubles at every station in the fifth round leaving little more than a puff of black dust where the targets were when impacted by his shot charge.

What is the point? Charlie was not on the circuit and shot with his Mossberg Model 500 pump 12 Ga. with a 30" modified barrel! The gun cost $106.00 tax included back then. The man with the Perazzi finished with 121 of 125 possible targets (pretty respectable score) but the "Spang" was perfect. After the last round he came to our staging area and with a wink said to me "Remember big boy, it ain't the gun it's the man behind the gun".

I own some very expensive fly rods and I enjoy them immensely but over the years I have felt the snare of the marketers tightening around my foot. I have purchased many rods that sold under $185.00 and some under $60.00 and found them all to be fine fly casting tools.

Was I just lucky in the purchase choices? Were the words of my old friend the very essence of truism? Only time and experience can answer these questions for you as an individual. As for me, I still love my expensive rods but never do I believe that they and they alone have made me a good fisherman or a good caster. In the end; Quality of experience lies within the person and to some extent the end of the day, not in a brand.

Ard

 

[bloodhound]

I have to apologize, cliff is very true that is about the broudest spectrum possible and yes some of the old shakespear fly rods and others of that nature, I wouldnt waste on a broke dick dog. the point i'm trying to make and not to offend anyone on here (being as these are my opinions) is that the purity of the sport (in my eyes is being and has been for some time) being swayed to the marked ploy trying to tell me and everyone else that if you get this model, brand, ect. it will greatly improve your cast I.E. catch you more and bigger fish.
when said millions of times on this forum, go cast rods before you buy them, i had the money for the BIIX when i test cast it but something told me that that much for somethinjg i would use (to it's real use) 2 weeks a year is not worth it
kinda like buying a super car and driving it once a month whats the point. mosty what i was clammering on about is exactly what ARD said.

 

[Ard]

I understood your point and was only attempting to provide a real life analogy to give a certain weight to the argument.

 

[bloodhound]

oh i thought what you said was a better cleaner more thought out version of what i was saying, i was not belittling what you stated. if you thought i was cutting your reply down i apologize.
thanks again.

 

[imxer]

RIP TIDE

My guess is that you knew/know how to read water better than the "hot shots".
--------------
BH

MTCW,
Spent 10 years fishing one rod , for trout, that was high end but available at a very reasonable price.
Never found any reason to replace it until recently when 4 piece became more advantageous for air travel. Was fortunate in finding one, also high end, at a very reasonable price. Plan to use it the same way. A more expensive rod doesn't have to be disregarded, in the long run it can cost less.

 

[burk48237]

1) Nothing wrong with buying the gear you can afford. And there's nothing wrong with spending less money on tools that get less work. My SW sticks get less work, I'm more then willing to fish good rods for those applications verses great rods.

2) There is no substitute for basic casting skills, and the ability to read the water.

3) There is a difference between the good sticks and the great sticks, but that difference is shrinking.

There are plenty of 100$ sticks that will fill most beginners needs just fine, but most won't handle "extreme presentations" near as well as a better rod.

Nobody is making a 150-250$ rod that is as good as the 700$ premium sticks, but there are some that are darn close either in feel or fit and finish but NEVER both.

There are some 250$-500$ rods that will push many of the premium rods on the market. While some of the 700$ premium sticks may be better none are 200-500$ better. The cost-benefit ratio diminishes as you go up in price. Having said this, the individual unique feel that some of the better rod companies produce does tend to fit some individual casting styles better.

4) As someone working in the industry the biggest problem in this business is the rod warranties. It cost mega dollars to replace an American made rod unlike most OS counterparts whose costs are tied up in the initial tooling only. So when you pay 700$ for that top name stick, a big chunk of that is the replacement cost overloads by those who take advantage of the generous warranties.

 

[ksigtuck]

Just wanted to through another option out there. I have recently learned to build rods and it is not very hard to do....just takes some practice and patience. By building your own rod you will save considerable amounts of money and can build them to meet your desires (different reel seats, etc.). I recently built a Orvis Superfine Trout Bum that sells new for around $550. I built this rod with really nice components for roughly $230. If I had my business license before this build then it would have cut that price by quite another large margin. The only downside is you do not get the warranty that you get from store bought rods.
Tuck

 

[FrankB2]

Catch more fish? If your casting improves, then yes! My most expensive (and
wonderfully light) rods were Diamondback Aeroflex. I bought them on closeout
from a shop, and also from Cortland's factory store. Tailing loops were something that I threw at least once or twice an hour*. I can honestly say
that I've never thrown a tailing loop with a Sage Z-Axis. Just to be sure, I
switched back to the Diamondback, and KABOOM...a tailing loop made a guest
appearance. I know some will say "take lessons", but I don't have a single
problem with the better rod.

As has been mentioned above, I want a rod that feels like an extension of
my arm. The best rod for me, is the rod I notice least.

*EDIT I tend to cast wooly buggers on a 9' 4X leader, so that may have contributed to the occassional tailing loop. Whatever
it was, it's gone. Come to think of it, I was probably using too much force in order to ge more distance with weighted flies, but
the Z-Axis will tear line off the spool!

P.S. I would never knock anyone's choice of rod and reel. Some of the best anglers I've seen on streams use rod and reel combos
that cost less than $175. I will continue to question why anyone would pay more than $1 for a cup of coffee, and yes I have tried
that ****buck's stuff: worthless !!!

 

[mojo]

A few years ago, I was invited to a weekend of fishing at a private trout club.
The other guests were a FFF board member, a well known tyer of classic salmon flies, a bamboo rod builder, a fly fishing author, and 2 fly club presidents.
And then there was me.
After dinner the first night everyone went out on the porch for bourbon, cigars, and to string up their rods for the morning session.
There was nice rods out including a Leonard, a Goodwin-Granger, some custom bamboo, and some high end plastic.
I strung up a Fenwick and then for a second rod I chose my $13 Walmart special.
I had brought other, better rods but for what ever reason, I needed to fish that Wallyworld rod. So that's what I did.

Guess who was high stick that next day :teef:

So if I start to fish with cheap Walmart rods, reels and lines I'll catch more fish than the guys with premium rods, reels and lines?