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  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    The Redwood Coast

    Default Re: New Yellowstone Angler 8 Weight Shootout Discussion

    Happen to own a retail business myself and what I see is text book marketing, but like I said, it's just my opinion...
    Last edited by kwb; 07-18-2011 at 05:53 PM.

  2. #32

    Default Re: New Yellowstone Angler 8 Weight Shootout Discussion

    I agree with FrankB2.

    I personally, do not see a problem at all with creating a buzz. What is wrong with marketing your business and expertise? I don't find many businesses that stay open who fail to execute this in some form. I do not believe Anderson's motives are self serving. I have been critical of a few aspects of previous shootouts because of how technical data was generated, where the rods were tested (grass & gym floor vs water), and the overtly negative tones used in poor product reviews. Having said this, Yellowstone Angler has improved the way they calculate swing weight and has also rationalized how decisions were made in a more direct and tangible manner though his YouTube address and additional content in the review. I thought they did very well this time, given the enormity of the task.

    The biggest difference between Yellowstone Angler and other shops that do informative videos is Yellowstone Angler's willingness to discuss what they like and dislike about a rod. This can certainly offend people. It takes clout to offer positive and negative critiques of the manufacturers who let you represent their products. They have a lot of experience behind their views, and it helps to learn about what makes each rod great in the minds of those who have rated each rod. If a small business can bring attention to itself in this manner, then what is the problem with that?

    I do not necessarily believe that the shootout is tainted towards one manufacturer or another. Winston and Hardy scored very well in the 5 weight shootout, but scored poorly in the 8 weight shootout. I also own Winston BIIX rods, and love them. I wouldn't put a GPX on them like they did in a previous shootout, nor did it inhibit me from making my purchases. At the end of the day, I did exactly what George Anderson said to do in his YouTube video. I took what he said into consideration, and visited my local fly shop. I tested the rods with different lines and made my own decision based on what worked best for my situation. I'd have to visit at least three or four fly shops to view three quarters of the rods listed in the shootout.

    As far as generating "cheap advertising"...... Find me business owners who want to consistently pay for "expensive advertising". Marketing changes as people’s needs and wants change. Knowing how consumers search out the products and services that are desired is important to the success of any business or corporation. Any small business owner would be remiss if they failed to use inexpensive media outlets such as blogs and other social media platforms to generate additional business without having to pay a marketing firm to come in and tell them they should have done internet based marketing. This whole forum is based off of discussing topics like this. If The Yellowstone Angler didn't conduct this shootout, we would still be talking about who likes the Loomis NRX or Sage Xi3, or why offshore rods are better or worse than domestically made rods.

    I have said before that it takes a lot of time and effort to conduct these shootouts. Many on this forum have offered advice on how to improve certain aspects of the shootout, and I believe that Yellowstone Angler has improved their approach and rating system with each shootout release. Anderson's experience speaks for itself and the shop was smart to conduct a candid review such as this. Anglers can debate the results like others can debate politics. That is what makes it interesting, and that is what creates a forum topic. I would rather read this than some of the "everything is great" reviews in other publications. Ultimately, only 1 shop has taken the time to do a review like this. Individuals, including myself, who offer criticism and praise must do so with the realization that it is a pretty large task to make everyone happy while attempting to provide unbiased reviews. Maybe it is an impossible task, but is there anyone else out there who has done better?

  3. Likes chuck s liked this post
  4. #33
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    The Redwood Coast

    Default Re: New Yellowstone Angler 8 Weight Shootout Discussion

    Cheap advertising is great, never said it wasn't, not worth arguing over...
    Last edited by kwb; 07-19-2011 at 06:52 PM.

  5. #34

    Default Re: New Yellowstone Angler 8 Weight Shootout Discussion

    I like the shootout(s). To me it's not much more than entertainment. I do find some of the information valuable, such as the scores at particular distances and their opinions on feel and their facts on swing weight. Other items are too subjective and I don't put a lot of weight in their final rankings. Case in point is the Loomis Native Run (which I own), which scored second in their previous shootout - now in the back of the pack. How does one fall from grace so far outside of new entrants? Is it now a poor rod when it was just #2 - hardly. I also enjoy the counterpoints.

    It's entertaining reading to me - not much more. Plus - I don't fish salt and don't boom 100 ft. casts


  6. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Northern California
    Blog Entries

    Default Re: New Yellowstone Angler 8 Weight Shootout Discussion

    Your story of the Native Run reminds me of a ski test.

    I have worked off and on in the ski industry for 20 years. A few years back the Line Prophet 100 skis fared in the back of the pack in a ski test. The following year, the Prophet 100 skis became the "Ski of the Year." Besides a change in graphics, it was same ski. Funny how that happens.


  7. #36

    Default Re: New Yellowstone Angler 8 Weight Shootout Discussion

    The Native Run is substantially unchanged from the original GLX rods of years ago…a testemony to how good thoes rods were then that they should still be a contender today. All the rods in front of it in the rartings of the “20ll 8-Weight Shootout” are new designs/technologies. Plus Anderson says many complementary things about the Native Run but suggests that its bias is more freshwater than the Shootouts stated flats fishing bias. Still, like many an earlier rod model, a fine fishing rod.

    I personally take these laborious rod comparisons more seriously than as entertainment. Having orchastrated some compartive rod – line - match – up evaluations with my friends on a smaller more informal scale, I recognize the enormous effort that goes into such a test. I do not sell fishing tackle, I merely fish with it with and strive to eschew brand favoritisim, but I do not detect objectionable commercial bias from Mr. Anderson despite his stocking many of these included brands.

    It happens that my own saltwater fly fishing includes flats fishing for bonefish and stripped bass with #8 rod. The combination of performance characteristics I seek are very well represented by the parameters of this shootout, enhancing its relevance for me. After visiting the Somerset Fly Fishing Show last January and casting most of the new rod series, my wife and I ordered two new 8-weight rods which, perhaps not coincidently, both finished in the top tier of Andersons test. We rarely fish the same rods because of differences in our size and casting technique. This brings up my “side-bar” to this Shootout: Some of the rods in this comparison are easy and intuative to cast and will yield their performance to most capable casters while others (in my opinion) require more advanced skills to extract substantial portions of their capabilities as the angler transitions off the tip to the mid and into the stiff butt section of the taper. Further, and this is necessarily outside of the parameters of this comparison, many of these rods can be tuned to supperior performance by switching to alternative fly lines. Anderson alludes to this but must keep an apples-to-apples perspective. Though the selected SA Mastery Bonefish Taper is a favorite of mine and a great line, after lawn casting both of our new rods with several lines from differing manufacturers, both rods were optimized by a tropical taper other than the seminal SA Bonefish! Some rods I test with various lines cast them all fine with perhaps one or two giving a special edge while others are more tempermental and feel very different with alternative fly lines. And many fast actioned rods today are happiest when over-lined a bit. There are many half-size heavier lines on the market today but you have to read the fine print to determaine which they are. The RIO Tarpon is a fine bonefish line in a heavy 8-weight, SA’s Magnum Saltwater and Wulff’s Bermuda Triangle also are over standard weight. I would like to see such lines labeled as W8.5F as an aid to the fly line shopping consumer and would also appreciate the makers offering great designs like the SA and RIO Bonefish in half size increments to assist in the fine tuning process of modern fly rods. But I am tangenting too far afield now except to state the obvious: Shootouts like this, and no one does them better than George Anderson, are valuable and should be applauded by all anglers to whom this data is applicable. Read it carefully and then go to a show or shop and cast some of these rods side-by-side, short, medium and long and pick the one best suited to you and you will aquire something that will enhance your angling experience for seasons to come.

  8. Likes chuck s liked this post
  9. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Rock River, Wyoming

    Default Re: New Yellowstone Angler 8 Weight Shootout Discussion

    Interesting thread and personally I love his shoot outs as they are a gold mine of info for someone who hasn't a fly shop around the corner and even better as a pre shopping trip read for one headed to the shop. In fact right now I am looking for one he did a few years ago - to get info on a particular make/model/year I love.  8088
    Great Fishing
    Der Alt Jaeger
    Chuck S

    "I've traveled many roads and some weren't paved."
    Will Rodgers

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