Echo 3 & 3S Fly Rods

[chicagojohn]

A few years ago, a $700 single handed rod seemed unimaginable. Now, Sage, Loomis, and Winston all have rods in the $800 range. U.S. fly rod manufacturers like Echo have seemed to avoid this trend. Echo has, however; released their Echo 3 and 3S lineup of fly rods, which is the company’s biggest push to enter the high end fly rod market.

Does anyone have experience with the new Echo 3 rods? How do these rods measure up against the $750-800+ fly rods on the market? I’m especially interested in learning how the Echo 3S saltwater models match up to some of the better rods on the market. At the $350-380 price range, an angler can buy two of these rods for the price of one Sage One, Winston BIIIX, or Loomis NRX.

 

[s fontinalis]

I have no experience with either of these rods, but I will say this. Big $$ doesnt always translate to the best rod. Sure, there will be one or two of these rods that will clearly outperform every other rod on the market, but mid level rods are often better than some of the high end rods.
You may be familiar with these rod comparisons for 5-WT and 8-WT rods, and particularly in the 8wt comparison, a $250 rod was deemed to be the second best rod.

Obviously, if you have the money for the big guns, then you get them, but in my opinion, the rod must also fit the arm that casts it, and not just the wallet that pays for it.

It could be that the echo's are better rods than the price says.

 

[chicagojohn]

I deinitely agree with the thought that the big price doesn't always translate into the best. Higher price often translates into better materials and lighter weight, but that is not always true when comparing some of the new rods on the market. This is primarily why I'm interested in learning the opinios of others regarding the Echo 3 and 3S rods. I'm a huge fan of the St. Croix Legend Elite series of rods for the higher weights, and those rods are nearly half the price of the more expensive brands listed in the intial post. I'd like to keep my purhcase in the US manufactured realm of fly rods, and the Echo 3's and St. Croix Legend Elite series seem to be the best rods for the price that are currently offered when you begin to look at a saltwater fly rod.

 

[BigCliff]

I generally like Echo's rods, but I think if you're after bang-for-the-buck in a high performance rod, you owe it to yourself to try a TFO BVK.

They're simply amazing and they sell for $250.

 

[sweetandsalt]

I too am curious about the Echo rods with which I have no experience. I do believe, however, that like the terrific BVK's and newest Albright EXT's, they are also Korean-built. High-end American made rods are (like everything else it seems) expensive but if you go to cast an NRX #8 you had better leave your credit card at home.

 

[notenuftoys]

+2 interested in the Echo3. I'm looking for something with backbone for tossing deer hair bass bugs, and getting down the coast for some redfish from time to time. I've read lots of great reviews on the BVK, but I'm not sure it has the ummph for the big flies.

 

[BigCliff]

I've read lots of great reviews on the BVK, but I'm not sure it has the ummph for the big flies.

To some degree, I agree with that.

An 8wt Axiom will handle bigger flies than an 8wt BVK, but its a likely as heavy as the 10wt BVK, and most folks need a 9wt line to flex it sufficiently.

Get a 9wt BVK, and you're set. It will probably be less work to cast than a burly 8wt.

 

[Pocono]

but I think if you're after bang-for-the-buck in a high performance rod, you owe it to yourself to try a TFO BVK.

They're simply amazing and they sell for $250.

I agree with Cilff.

I've cast the BVK in a 9 wt. and used it for Stripers in Maine and it's a very nice rod; particularly for the money. I think that Lefty spent a lot of time on this rod before he let his initials go out on the blank.

This rod, in the 8 wt. version, also did very well against the high dollar rods in the recent shootout competition that George Anderson put together.

Pocono

 

[sweetandsalt]

If you look at Anderson's "Performance Only Results" chart (taking price out of the consideration), the BVK is in the 6th slot tied with some very respectable and more costly competition. Though Anderson didn't call it a "Flats Rod" Shootout, that is esentially what it was. We have a #8 BVK which is going on its second bonefishing trip in a couple of weeks and, in large part because of its power to weight ratio but also its elusive character, it has become a favorit of my wife's. We like it best with a 1/2 size heavy or a front loaded agressive taper line. The SA Textured Magnum and RIO's #8.5 Tarpon Taper are perfect bonefishing lines for this rod.

It is hard to design/build a flats rod and nothing else I have tried from the TFO line up is close to BVK. Same goes, not only for most of the other Asian-builts but even some of the vaunted US makers; with the very notable exception of the terrific #7 - 9 rods designed by Sage and G.Loomis. Tim Rajeff, designer of the ECHO rods is, of course, the brother of Steve - designer of the G.Loomis Rods. I, again, reiterate my curiosity about the performance of his newest models and how they migh compare to the performance of the Big Boys.

 

[notenuftoys]

I called Rajeff Sports today, and the Echo3 9wt is 5oz. That puts it towards the lighter side of the mid-priced 9wts.

 

[Pocono]

S&S, you'll chuckle at my choice of a rod for mid-sized Bones; it's a Sage TCX 7 wt. with a 9 wt. Sci Ang Bonefish line. The line gets it through the wind without much effort and the rod is the right size for fighting medium size Bones.

Pocono

 

[sweetandsalt]

Pocono, I have fished the TCX #7 for a week in Acklins Isl. and loved it. I know at least two expert bonefishers that consider it among the best rods for bones ever. However, I like it with a RIO Bonefish in its rated #7. Granted it has the stuff to throw heavier line but I feel it is at its sharpest with a 7 or perhaps 7.5 line. Too bad RIO doesn't make their Tarpon lighter than 8 weight as that line in 7 (7.5) would be ideal for TCX. Overlining it slows it and dulls its reflexes, in my opinion. A 7 being smaller in diameter, with this rod's potency, would cut ever-present Bahamin wind well. I encourage you to take it out on a big lawn and try it with a few different lines. I appreciate that it is rod that requires excelent timing and strong stops to generate its potential line speed but this is a specialty rod built for few but critical casts that does not have many peers.

 

[mikel]

I'd echo (no pun intended) what others have said about the BVK.

I called Rajeff Sports today, and the Echo3 9wt is 5oz. That puts it towards the lighter side of the mid-priced 9wts.

Rajeff Sports will treat you right, though. Called there with an off the wall question about adding a fighting butt to my Echo Classic 6 wt...for light steelheading. The person who answered handed the phone to Tim, who spent about 20 minutes looking in his warehouse for parts and mailing them to me, no charge.

-Mike

 

[Pocono]

Pocono, I have fished the TCX #7 for a week in Acklins Isl. and loved it. I know at least two expert bonefishers that consider it among the best rods for bones ever. However, I like it with a RIO Bonefish in its rated #7. Granted it has the stuff to throw heavier line but I feel it is at its sharpest with a 7 or perhaps 7.5 line. Too bad RIO doesn't make their Tarpon lighter than 8 weight as that line in 7 (7.5) would be ideal for TCX. Overlining it slows it and dulls its reflexes, in my opinion. A 7 being smaller in diameter, with this rod's potency, would cut ever-present Bahamin wind well. I encourage you to take it out on a big lawn and try it with a few different lines. I appreciate that it is rod that requires excelent timing and strong stops to generate its potential line speed but this is a specialty rod built for few but critical casts that does not have many peers.

S&S, I fish the TCX 7 wt. with a standard 7 wt. line for Smallmouths and it responds just fine.

Here's another anecdote for you.

I was fishing on the upper Androscoggin for Smallmouths in July and had to leave the house very early in order to meet up with the other couple that we were fishing with. It was a guided trip through 6 miles of private water on the Andro. Like most guides, ours wanted to check out our basic skills at the start before we got too far from the launch ramp. My casting was absolutely awful for the first 5-10 casts, then it got better and really smoothed out later in the day when I was finding 3-4 lb. fish under branches and behind rocks while floating the middle of the river. When I got home, I wound the line back on the plastic spool and right under the taped "WF7F" was another designation "WF4F"! Yup, I'd fished that 7 wt. TCX the whole day with a 4 wt. line.

I'm starting to think that rod will do almost everything well.....

You're right about it and timing; just think how hard I had to work to get it timed correctly for that 4 wt. line :sweatingb

Pocono

 

[sweetandsalt]

That is a good tale, I can not imaging that super quick stick even bending with such skinny string.

I really appreciate the TCR/TCX lineage but employ them only in situations where relativly few casts are executed but must place a fly at distance with accuracy. Brilliant for hunting permit or big bones from a skiff but somewhat tiresome for repeated or "blind" casting. There are so many sweeter rods from Sage's offerings alone, like Z-Axis and the new One.

Back to ECHO; we are refering to a new model in this thread that few of us have had an opportunity to see much less cast and fish. The 8-weight shootout (which I am a fan of) is oft refered to as have vaulted BVK into the realm of the hig-priced rods. In the smaller print, early in Anderson's elaborat write-up, he indicated that he could not include everything particularly rods not readily available in shops like Albright and Allen Nti, he did no mention ECHO though. I just can't believe a man with the talents and reputation of Tim Rajeff is going to put his name on a rod that is anything less than very good. I hope to see him and his new rods at Somerset in January.

 

[salinefly]

I realize this is an old thread but I just want to say as a previous TFO owner that the BVK seems like a nice rod for a good price until you fish it a while (about 10 outings in my case) and the cheap cork handle starts to come apart in your hand (also the cork had a 1/4 inch pit in it upon arrival, which I dealt with) or the blank breaks in a very strange spot in the middle of the second section from the tip top.... Had two separate rods break in that same exact spot while casting and no I wasn't high sticking and no I've never snapped another rod in my life from simply casting.

I picked up an Echo 3S and the superior quality is apparent from the start, high grade cork handle, hard chrome stainless and oversized stripping and snake guides and very well crafted thread wraps with a beautiful deep blue blank. The TFO is a flat out POS compared to the Echo 3S, you may save money on the initial cost of the TFO but after spending 25 bucks a pop on two warranty replacements from TFO I gave up on them. I'm using the 10wt Echo 3s for chucking heavy shooting heads for Calico Bass on the West Coast and it can throw a wide range of grain weights and it does it well.... I am using grain weights between 350 and 500 grains on it at the moment and it's a cannon... roll, back cast shoot it all with nearly zero effort.

MY buddy has a 6wt Echo 3 and we hooked into some Leopard sharks one day and he got the thing in on it but it made a violent run at the last second and the line was wrapped up in the tip and snapped the rod (any rod would have snapped from that) guess what Echo replaced it no questions asked and had him a new rod just as fast as TFO would have. My opinion is that Echo is a far superior product and they stand by their products... my same friends echo ion freshwater reel rusted out, from saltwater use, and they still sent him a brand new reel for 25 bucks, they just rock!

 

[fly505]

This is an old thread indeed but I would most definitely agree in the craftsmanship of the Echo rods. I've read countless articles and threads on how terrific Tim Rajeff and his staff are at Echo...just plain awesome. I have a 9ft 9-wt Edge Saltwater and am just impressed how beautiful this thing is in person...and a blast to fish with. I've never fished a BVK but your story about them isn't unusual from what I've read. This was a front runner for me and am glad I did further research before I pulled the trigger on one. +1 for Echo

 

[sweetandsalt]

Yes, an old tread but since it is revived, I will enter an update. Since writing what I have above I have fished an ECHO3S #9 in Andros and have replaced my #6 BVK with a same size ECHO3...a notably superior rod. I have also grown disenchanted with our BVK #8, though it has not failed us it simply lacks character and refinement. Other than its light weight, it has made me question Anderson's shootout rankings.

 

[stokes2]

I generally like Echo's rods, but I think if you're after bang-for-the-buck in a high performance rod, you owe it to yourself to try a TFO BVK.

They're simply amazing and they sell for $250.

Greetings,

I have both rods in 5 wt and I will say that they are apples and oranges. The BVK is a great rod for some sort of dry or dry dropper rig. However, it absolutely stinks in the wind!! On the other side the Echo 3 is quite a bit stiffer and is a great nymphing rig. I use it in the winter because it is great to nymph with and it is pretty inexpensive so I don't really care if I damage it. The echo 3 also shoots very well in the wind, much much better than the BVK.

Both are great rods for the money but are definitely made for different things. In all I would get the Echo 3 for a better "all around rod." Not as delicate as the BVK but a workhorse for sure

 

[carlosjr]

sorry to bring back this old thread, but I am looking at the Echo 3 currently in replace of an orvis T3, and was curious if anyone had any updates on how their Echo 3's are performing? Also, How is their warranty?