Single foot guides Vs. Snake guides...

[dave5977]

Can you help me out between the two?

I'm looking at buying a Myth 4 wt 8'6" rod from Allen Fly Fishing in the next couple days. I noticed they have single foot guides on them.
Well, I have never seen this before. Justin tells me "We prototyped the rod with both snake and single foot guides and the rod felt better with using single foot guides."

I'll take his word for it. Can you add anything more from experience and/or knowledge?

Thanks!
Dave

 

[Guest1]

I have made rods with both. One of my favorite rods is a 5 wight with single foot guides. It has inserts. I have made them with wire single foot guides as well. They are lighter. My 12 wt. has single foot guides with inserts as well. I have never found a reason to regret my guide choice on either rod.

The advantage of single foot guides is that you have half the flex coat and half the thread. You loose some if not all of that weight advantage when you use single foot guides with inserts.

I'm not sure you can actually tell the difference when you are casting, but theoretically you have less weight in the rod, most importantly in the tip end, so the way it casts is different. How much different? I'm sure it's hard to tell.

 

[jpbfly]

Totally agree with Dan about the advantages of single foot guides...but I've got two rods with them and I feel the line doesn't run as easily through foot guides than through snake ones...don't know why, maybe it's only because of the metal .

 

[sweetandsalt]

Wire single foot and snake guides weigh about the same but the snakes require the additional weight of a second thead wrap and coat of finish. Single foots have famously been used on G.Loomis' original GLX and on the also super light "Nano" Nti by the original Florida based Redington. They are a bit more likely to be damaged in a pulling situation because they are anchored at only on point. A renowned rod designer told me that the blank must be designed for specific guide types and sizes; changing the mass added to the blank effects the rods action. As in all rod choices; cast the rod allong with a few of its peers to see what feels the best and covers the performance criteria for your intended use.

 

[randyflycaster]

For competive ACA casting tournments, most distance casters use single-foot guides, less friction, less weight (so the rod, in effect, become faster).

IMHO, single-foot guides are not as durable.

Randy

 

[dave5977]

I can see a durability issue with the single foot guide. If you bend it by running them into something, then try to straighten them out (too many times), it is possible to fatigue the guide and break it off.

... I feel the line doesn't run as easily through foot guides than through snake ones... (jpbfly)

Could this be because when the line runs through the single foot guides, it is hitting them striaght on (perpendicular) causing friction? Compared to a snake guide, the line is hitting the guides at a less sever angle because of the "cork screw" design of the guide? so there is less friction...

But that line of thinking goes against randyflycaster's comment

Dave

 

[jpbfly]

Dave...only tried to tell what I feel while fishing....I'm a flyfisherman not a caster.The best thing to do is to try both rods yourself

 

[dave5977]

jpbfly, I completely respect what you are saying...
I just get caught up in this sort of things. Probably to a fault.

 

[Ard]

I think Dan pretty well covered that one, I too have both type guides.

 

[FrankB2]

I had a couple of factory-built rods with single foot guides. While I didn't notice any Wow Factor in terms of casting, the single foot guides were more prone to hang up on branches and such while walking with the rod pointed foward. Some might say, "Learn how to carry the rod," things like boat gunwales can catch single foot guides as well. Wrapping them properly would help durability, but I've never seen a factory rod that had the proper Forman wrap (I think that's the proper term...Dan???).

 

[dean_mt]

For competive ACA casting tournments, most distance casters use single-foot guides, less friction, less weight (so the rod, in effect, become faster).

IMHO, single-foot guides are not as durable.

Randy

Lighter - yes, that is easy to understand, though I question if it is discernible on an average 9' rod.

But how is there less friction? I assume you mean less friction between the line and guide...which is a hoop that the line passes through. I do not see how a single foot hoop has any less surface and friction than a two footed hoop.

I think it is marketing hype. I will always prefer snakes for the extra strength of the connection of the guide to the blank over the fractions of ounces a single foot offers.

---------- Post added at 09:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:10 PM ----------

I can see a durability issue with the single foot guide. If you bend it by running them into something, then try to straighten them out (too many times), it is possible to fatigue the guide and break it off.

I agree exactly.

 

[pegboy1]

I had a couple of factory-built rods with single foot guides. While I didn't notice any Wow Factor in terms of casting, the single foot guides were more prone to hang up on branches and such while walking with the rod pointed foward. Some might say, "Learn how to carry the rod," things like boat gunwales can catch single foot guides as well. Wrapping them properly would help durability, but I've never seen a factory rod that had the proper Forman wrap (I think that's the proper term...Dan???).

Ive built with singles and ultimately went back to snake guides. Had a big salmon this fall tie a knot around my single foot with loose fly line on its initial run. It ended up fine, but this wouldnt have happened with the snakes.

 

[auntrout]

I think it is Forhan wrap.

 

[mojo]

My preference is snakes. I have a couple rods with single foot guides, and to tell the truth, I don't notice them when fishing. Personal preference to me. Some of you guys mention they're not as strong, but (I maybe off base here) I've never seen a spinning rod or any other rod that style, with single foot guides have any ripped off. So I'm not sure that lack of strength would be a factor. I'm also not sure if anybody out there would really notice a weight difference between single foot or snakes. That extra thread and finish isn't going to be noticable. Especially when throwing a line.

 

[mudbug]

I may be wrong but I thought I read somewhere that other than the small weight difference the type of guide (snake vs. single) can make. I think I read that the snake guide will slightly stiffen a blank. Think of laying a Popsicle stick along side your finger and taping it top and bottom. Kinda like that but not nearly as much.

 

[randyflycaster]

I can't answer your question, but there must be a reason all the top ACA distance casters use single-foot guides.

Randy

 

[dean_mt]

My preference is snakes. I have a couple rods with single foot guides, and to tell the truth, I don't notice them when fishing. Personal preference to me. Some of you guys mention they're not as strong, but (I maybe off base here) I've never seen a spinning rod or any other rod that style, with single foot guides have any ripped off. So I'm not sure that lack of strength would be a factor. I'm also not sure if anybody out there would really notice a weight difference between single foot or snakes. That extra thread and finish isn't going to be noticable. Especially when throwing a line.

You're right, Mojo, spinning rods do not use snakes but the single foot on a hardware rod is a much more substantial guide - a lot heavier and usually with a plastic liner - heck they are made to chuck hardware attached to mono. My point, the single foot wire guides used for a standard 4-6 WT fly rod are much lighter way easier to bend or flatten in an accident.

And ultimately, it is personal preference. I'm sticking with snake guides, they have worked for me for 15 years...

 

[Jackster]

My point, the single foot wire guides used for a standard 4-6 WT fly rod are much lighter way easier to bend or flatten in an accident.

The guides don't much matter to me. I've never had a failure with either type. That said, when buying a hot rod rod I opt for single foot guides because of parasitic losses. Stiffer spots on the blank at each guide and extra weight carried on that long lever we call a fly rod add up... even though it's probably all in my head, it matters.

As for the bending or flatteing of single foots, almost all of my single foot rods have ReCoil guides. Problem solved.

 

[dean_mt]

The guides don't much matter to me. I've never had a failure with either type. That said, when buying a hot rod rod I opt for single foot guides because of parasitic losses. Stiffer spots on the blank at each guide and extra weight carried on that long lever we call a fly rod add up... even though it's probably all in my head, it matters.

As for the bending or flatteing of single foots, almost all of my single foot rods have ReCoil guides. Problem solved.

Well there you go!

Personal preference...

 

[evan_aff]

I'll chime in here from the other side of the fence.

With this rod series, we are using high modulus graphite (IM-9), which gives us a very light, fast recovery rod. With a faster blank, we wanted to take every measure we could to get the best possible flex we could. Two of the most noticeable measures we took were to use internal ferrules, and single foot guides.

Is either one of these traits better than their alternative? Depends on who you ask. This same rod made with the alternatives (sleeve-over ferrule and snake guides) would still be a great rod. Would the difference be noticeable if either one of these things was changed? For most, probably not. BUT, the combination of both of these traits together, to me, makes a rod with a better overall flex, with less dead spots, and is indeed noticeable.

There are pros and cons of going with all of the options. But for this rod series, the single foot guides in combination with internal ferrules just made what we were after.

Hope this helps in some way.