Orvis H2

[db cooper]

I played with the H2 some more yesterday at work. I reviewed in the review section. Those who have cast the rod...check it out and see if you agree. Its a nice rod guys, worth checking out.

 

[Jackster]

Let me tell you about the four real decent casters who toyed with a 9', 5 weight tip-flex H2 last weekend and had a heck of a time making a tailing loop with that rod.
I've never seen anything like that. It started with me helping a shop owner work on his getting certified. I asked for some nice, parallel loops at about 35' and told him to tail when I asked him to. He just couldn't tail it and he is no rooky to the game. After giving him hints like BANG the next cast, dip your arm and poke the rod to the sky at the end of the stroke, still no tail.
I proceeded to demonstrate and really had to struggle to tail. My good friend and casting partner came up to the pond and without going into detail I asked him to show us a tail. It took him quite a few tries to tail with that rod.
The Orvis rep was next up, same results. Amazing really.
Hindsight will have many of you knowing exactly how to throw a tail with that rod but without fair warning I don't think the usual tactics would work.

When is the Helios 3 coming out so I can pick up a H2 at a price I can comfortably afford?

 

[db cooper]

I purchased mine yesterday. I do really like the rod. I have always considered myself to be a midflex guy, but the H2 tip flex was just about perfect.

 

[sweetandsalt]

Orvis has so much invested in Helios technology that I would not expect them to replace it any time soon. However, taper improvement is another story. From what you and Jackster (and Orvis) are saying it does indeed seem like they have made major strides in design. I have fished (but not owned) Helios in #'s 5, 6, 8 and 9 and my impression is "tip flex" to Orvis is "mid flex" to many of the rest of us with "mid flex" being ""full flex". For certain models like the super popular 9'/#5 they really could have three flex profiles. Compared to your original Helios, does the new H2 incorporate noticeably boosted lower taper power reserves? That is what I felt missing in earlier versions. I look forward to casting these new rods.

 

[db cooper]

Absolutely. That in fact was the most surprising part of the H2 compared to the original IMHO. The newer rod has much more power in the butt section...in this regard its much more like the current Hardy Zenith.

With moderate hauls that produce roughly a 70-75 foot cast with my old Helios, the newer rod will throw 85-90. Rod quality is all about taper design imho and Orvis really got it right with the 9x5 tip and also the 9x8 tip. As mentioned above, the 9x5 is very difficult to overpower and produce tailing loops fwiw.

 

[ketchum88]

Unfortunately, I am unable to go and cast the new H2's as none are close to me. I have been trying to do as much research on them as I can and am really confused. I sold my Sage One 9' 5 wt because it was too stiff to be a good dry fly rod and really did not throw well under 40' even if overlined. I like faster rods, but want a little softer tip to make it a little more dry fly/tippet friendly. I have contacted 3-4 shops that have gotten to fish with the new tip flex H2 and all of them tell me that the rod is as stiff or stiffer than the Sage One and do not recommend it as a dry fly rod.

Contradicts what you guys are saying that the tip flex has a softer tip like the Zeniths. Not saying anyone is right or wrong, just trying to figure it all out.

 

[sweetandsalt]

I have yet to cast the new H2 either. In all fairness I was somewhat unimpressed by Helios to begin with. I am fundamentally a dry fly trout angler and the Sage ONE #5 is a superb dry fly rod with a straight 5-weight RIO Gold. I happen to love the Hardy Zenith too which does have a softer tip and that might suite your style better. It is the ONE's scalpel-like tip that gives it such an edge over its competition; impeccably precise control. It is the angler's line handling which protects the tippet not the shock absorption property of a soft tip.

 

[delopez]

You know, there's just something about that sage one that sets it over the competition. It's totally different to any rod that I've casted. For a fast action rod, it has a lot of 'give' to it. I think I'll own one, one day... I've always been a big Winston fan. However, I'm an Orvis fan as well. I personally like the feel of the Access line better than I like the Helios. I think access rods are comparable to some of the Winston rods that I have owned. But, this is my opinion.

 

[ketchum88]

Sweetandsalt,

Thanks for the reply.

This is certainly a subjective discussion. I have a 9' 6 wt One and love it, and in general think the One is a great rod. I personally liked the Z-axis better for shorter dry fly work, due to the softer tip, than the One. The 9' 5 wt One is a rocket launcher and can carry more line in the air though. It is a great all rounder to me, just not a great dry fly rod for casts under 30-40'

As far as tippet protection, I agree with you. But rod action can also play a HUGE role. I nymph with 10' rods that have very soft tips. I can horse 20"+ fish with 6-7x tippet with that rod due to the fact that the tip gives a lot more.

Enjoy the discussion though and this is a great site.

 

[gbanker]

I am thinking that if one was to underline a rod by two line sizes the rod tip would not bend as much and it would be harder to throw a tailing loop. One of my friends has a "10" wt that won't throw a tailing loop and I am guessing the rod will handle a 12 wt line just fine. Stiffer tip = harder to throw a tailing loop?

 

[fly_guy12955]

Yes, a rod plays a big part in not breaking off a light leader. It's simple physics really. I've never ever liked a stiff tipped rod, not even fast actions in general. But I cast a lot of dries at some short ranges as well as longer cast. The last thing I wanna be doing is to be smacking the fly down on the water. For the places I fish, and the way I fish, give me no more than a medium action. About the Orvis Access rod,,it's one fine rod...I'm surprised it doesn't cost twice what it does.

 

[sweetandsalt]

Not that I consider the ONE to be a broomstick, there is plenty of sensitivity in its super low mass yet crisp tip. I have long disputed the notion that faster action rods yield harsher dry fly presentations. As I explained in an earlier 4-weight discussion; generating high line speed and forming a tight loop allows the angler to turn a very long leader/tippet over in the air and, with a reach and wiggle of that precise tip, alight one's fly with subtle delicacy right in the fishes feeding lane with optimal, current absorbing, deliberate curves. Conversely, my disappointment with an earlier (BIIx) #4 was that it flexed so deeply its correspondingly soft tip lacked precision so it was disposed to softly lay the line out on the water not only with less control but with line impact ripples preceding the alightment of the fly.

Now, while I do not have trouble making shorter presentations with the ONE I do consider it to be a medium to big river rod and I carry smaller water speciality rods in my quiver as well.

To return to the subject of this thread, I can't wait to cast several of the new H2's, probably at Somerset, as the kind of problem I like having is choosing among too many great fishing rods.

 

[fly_guy12955]

I'm NOT a super caster for sure. I will agree in part,,that you can get a slow action rod that is so 'noodley' that you can lose all control with it,then you can't lay out ANY kind of presentation and accuracy is like a shotgun compared to a rifle. I like slower action rods,,but I like one with control and accuracy too. Living in the mountains and fishing a lot of high small native waters, I do prefer a QUALITY slower, softer action. If I fished medium and lager rivers, I can imagine the Sage 'One' to be the magic for sure. I do have a BVK as my lake rod for trout and bass,,but it'd make a horrible brookie rod were I fish and a 7X tippet would be in serious danger. There are lots of variables,,between fishermen's desires, casting abilities, areas fished, etc.

 

[delopez]

If you wanted the sage one's accuracy in a slow action rod, you ought to check out the Sage Circa. From what I understand it's supposed to be exactly that: slow and accurate.

 

[fly_guy12955]

I suppose the Circa is great. But that's a hell'va price tag. I have cast the Orvis Superfine and like it very well and am looking to get one of them. If the Circa were just more moderately priced, that would be a serious consideration.

 

[db cooper]

I am thinking that if one was to underline a rod by two line sizes the rod tip would not bend as much and it would be harder to throw a tailing loop. One of my friends has a "10" wt that won't throw a tailing loop and I am guessing the rod will handle a 12 wt line just fine. Stiffer tip = harder to throw a tailing loop?

The best and only cure for a tailing loop is a proper casting stroke. A H2 makes it harder for a good caster to tail. A poor caster however will still duff with this rod...I have watched them do it every day since the rod hit the market

As far as the H2 goes, if you didnt like the Sage ONE, you probably will not like the Orvis H2. The ONE is faster but not by a whole lot. S&S's recommendation of the Zenith is really a good one. I have the 9x5 and really do love the rod. I honestly like the H2 maybe a touch better but its all pretty subjective.

I also agree with him that faster rods do not mean less delicacy in the delivery. That is a total myth. Delicacy comes from an appropriate cast...no rod can fix this. I prefer a fast rod with a tip flex. This gives me the ability to punch into wind, go deep if needed, and the fact that the flex is in the tip helps the rod protect lighter tippet. A lot of people think that a midflex rod offers more tippet protection but the truth is, many parabolic rods have stiffer tips. My mid-flex helios 9x5 for example is a tippet breaking son of a gun if there ever was one. My zenith 9x5 though much faster, fishes 5-8x with no issue. I

---------- Post added at 08:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:40 PM ----------

If you wanted the sage one's accuracy in a slow action rod, you ought to check out the Sage Circa. From what I understand it's supposed to be exactly that: slow and accurate.

A nice rod for those who like a softer rod. Also check out the Scott G2 and the Orvis superfine touch (the best of them all imho)

 

[redyote]

I'm excited about the H2 because I was just able to get two original Helios rods for the price of one! I guess I'll cast one next time I'm in Sevierville, much to the dismay of my wife...

 

[shotgunfly]

I'll add this prototype shot from the local pro shop I got today—just to add some color to the thread.

The production models are out...not time to cast them today but I look forward to it. Mostly because I'm looking for a 8'6" 5 or 4wt (in a few months).

 

[db cooper]

lol...the actual rods don't say that...just the prototypes did...very funny though!