Thinking about adding a rod to my trout fishing quiver.

[glacierjohn]

I know this is totally personal preference, but it's still fun to discuss. Talking Montana rivers, lakes and streams, right now, not counting a number of old rods I rarely fish anymore, my go-to Rods are a 7.5' 3 wt. Winston WT, a 9' 4 wt. San Francisco Scott G Series and a new 9' 5 wt. Sage Z-Axis.

Growing up fishing fiberglass for almost 30 years before my first graphite rod, I'm a slow-medium action rod guy by nature, but every time I fish with a guide (maybe twice a year), he insist I use his fast action rods. That's why I bought the Z-Axis. I don't really enjoy lobbing weighted nymphs, preferring to use a nymph dropper off a dry fly, but I will do the nymph with sinker thing when I have to. For some reason, maybe because I never really learned the technique, I don't streamer fish much, but I'd like to learn that.

So, realizing that what I have now would work well for 90% of Montana trout situations, I would kind of like to add a graphite six weight to the quiver. I'm thinking it would be a dual purpose rod, big trout windy conditions on the Big Hole River or same thing on Duck Lake up on the Blackfeet Reservation. Also something for streamers. Would a medium action rod like an old Scott G series or new G2 work well or do I need to go fast action? I've been ebaying a couple weeks and got out bid on two old Scott 906 rods, still looking, but am willing to open my mind to other brands, weights or lengths.

Thanks, John

 

[MoscaPescador]

I know this is totally personal preference, but it's still fun to discuss. Talking Montana rivers, lakes and streams, right now, not counting a number of old rods I rarely fish anymore, my go-to Rods are a 7.5' 3 wt. Winston WT, a 9' 4 wt. San Francisco Scott G Series and a new 9' 5 wt. Sage Z-Axis.

Nice quiver. You just need a streamer rod for the heavier payloads (think line, leader, and fly combination) that your Z can't cover.

Growing up fishing fiberglass for almost 30 years before my first graphite rod, I'm a slow-medium action rod guy by nature, but every time I fish with a guide (maybe twice a year), he insist I use his fast action rods. That's why I bought the Z-Axis. I don't really enjoy lobbing weighted nymphs, preferring to use a nymph dropper off a dry fly, but I will do the nymph with sinker thing when I have to. For some reason, maybe because I never really learned the technique, I don't streamer fish much, but I'd like to learn that.

As for the casting part of it, a good caster can adjust his or her stroke to match the action of a rod.

As for learning how to streamer fish, it does not hurt to know how. Once you figure it out, it will be a valuable tool in your arsenal.

So, realizing that what I have now would work well for 90% of Montana trout situations, I would kind of like to add a graphite six weight to the quiver. I'm thinking it would be a dual purpose rod, big trout windy conditions on the Big Hole River or same thing on Duck Lake up on the Blackfeet Reservation. Also something for streamers. Would a medium action rod like an old Scott G series or new G2 work well or do I need to go fast action? I've been ebaying a couple weeks and got out bid on two old Scott 906 rods, still looking, but am willing to open my mind to other brands, weights or lengths.

This is where the personal preference part comes in. I prefer the faster rod. It has more butt to handle the loads from heavier payloads. It will throw line better in the wind.

If you look around hard enough, you can find Scott S4 rods on clearance. They are being discontinued for a newer model. I am a Sage Z-Axis owner, but I would rather own a Scott S4 if I was going to use it as a streamer rod.

Thanks, John

You are welcome.

 

[jastrout]

John It is hard to follow after the great advice by previous poster. Ok I too am in your shoes except in PA and not Montana . I am currently heavy modern glass and soft graphite . Little knowledge on faster graphite but for my waters and medium streamers/ medium nymph tandem I am having Mike Mcfarland build 8' 3" S glass 5/6 weight. A fav in fiberglass is also Mark Steffen 's version in this same configuration . Well thought by many to be his premier rod. Mike is good friend hence my decision. Again the previous post was so good you may want to ignore my thoughts. But love your rods as well.

 

[glacierjohn]

Nice quiver. You just need a streamer rod for the heavier payloads (think line, leader, and fly combination) that your Z can't cover.



As for the casting part of it, a good caster can adjust his or her stroke to match the action of a rod.

As for learning how to streamer fish, it does not hurt to know how. Once you figure it out, it will be a valuable tool in your arsenal.



This is where the personal preference part comes in. I prefer the faster rod. It has more butt to handle the loads from heavier payloads. It will throw line better in the wind.

If you look around hard enough, you can find Scott S4 rods on clearance. They are being discontinued for a newer model. I am a Sage Z-Axis owner, but I would rather own a Scott S4 if I was going to use it as a streamer rod.



You are welcome.

This is a most helpful post. I'll look into the S4.

I can cast my Z-Axis fine, and it works much better than the slower Scott 4 wt. in the wind, I just like the feel of the Scott G better, and was wondering if by going up to a six weight, the heavier line would punch wind as well or close to as well as a faster action six?

John

 

[fireroad]

As great as the Scott G series is, I doubt that a 6 wt G would offer you much more in terms of handling heavy payloads and cutting through the wind then your 5 wt axis. When you jump up to 6 wt you may find that you prefer a med-fast to fast action rod over a med/mod. While the Scott S4 is a great rod, it may feel to stiff compared to the deeper bending rods you are use to. If you can handle a z-axis but want something slower I would look at a Sage VXP or Response, Scott A4, St Croix Legend Elite, G Loomis GLX Streamdance, or Beulah Platinum.

 

[imxer]

John,

+1 for the Loomis GLX Streamdance. Thought about a 7 Wt?

paul

 

[glacierjohn]

John,

+1 for the Loomis GLX Streamdance. Thought about a 7 Wt?

paul

I have actually. When I started fishing the 7 Wt was pretty much the standard all around fresh water rod, and a six was considered a light trout rod. I still have my 7'-9" 6 Wt. fiberglass Browning Silaflex, was casting it this morning as a matter of fact. Even though that glass rod throws six weight line out there well, it feels very light with a super whippy tip on a fairly stiff butt. I can't imagine it doing heavy work like what we are talking about. It seems like lighter graphite rods can do heavier work than their fiberglass counterparts, so I thought a seven weight would be overkill, but I'm open to suggestions.

John

 

[Sage & Abel]

You should consider casting the Sage VXP in a 6 weight based on what I've read of your post in this thread. I have fished the 590 and own the 7100. It's not a fast Sage rod and is not, as some has suggested, a reincarnated Sage XP. I fish XP's quite a bit. It may well be a great streamer rod for you, expecially if you like the Z-Axis. Slower, deeper flexing blank; but, it's not too slow to deliver the payloads you want and handle wind.

 

[fireroad]

You should consider casting the Sage VXP in a 6 weight based on what I've read of your post in this thread. I have fished the 590 and own the 7100. It's not a fast Sage rod and is not, as some has suggested, a reincarnated Sage XP. I fish XP's quite a bit. It may well be a great streamer rod for you, expecially if you like the Z-Axis. Slower, deeper flexing blank; but, it's not too slow to deliver the payloads you want and handle wind.

The VXP seems to be getting rave reviews from guides and fly shop employees. I've been on 2 guided trips in the last 4 months and both guides owned several VXPs. I'm almost in the same boat as you and just waiting for my local shop to get 6 wt VXPs in stock.

 

[glacierjohn]

The VXP seems to be getting rave reviews from guides and fly shop employees. I've been on 2 guided trips in the last 4 months and both guides owned several VXPs. I'm almost in the same boat as you and just waiting for my local shop to get 6 wt VXPs in stock.

I just spoke with Ian at Scott, he believes the new Scott Radian is designed just for guys like us. The guy at my local shop raved about the demo Radian the Scott Rep brought in a month ago. I'll also have to check out that VXP if I can find one.

 

[glcaddis]

If I were looking to add a rod, I'd wait till I could cast the Scott Radian for myself. I've heard all the hype about a lot of rods, some I liked, most I wish I hadn't spent my money on them. But, Scott has consistently delivered the rod I liked.

 

[glacierjohn]

If I were looking to add a rod, I'd wait till I could cast the Scott Radian for myself. I've heard all the hype about a lot of rods, some I liked, most I wish I hadn't spent my money on them. But, Scott has consistently delivered the rod I liked.

I will definitely try this rod and a couple others to compare before I buy anything.

John

 

[moucheur2003]

Nice quiver. You just need a streamer rod for the heavier payloads (think line, leader, and fly combination) that your Z can't cover.

I agree with this assessment. And so it leads me to think that you want a faster rod,not a gentler one.

But that doesn't mean it needs to be even more burly than your Z-Axis. I'm not a big fan of the Z-Axis myself.

I was looking to fill exactly the same gap in my arsenal a few years ago and settled on the Orvis Hydros Tip Flex after casting a lot of other rods. (Orvis also made a Mid Flex model that I found too mushy for the need I was trying to fill.) It has the spine to lob a heavy fly a long distance in the wind. I can probably cast 15-20' farther than with some of the "softer" 6 weights I tried. Yet it still has great feel and sensitivity, which surprised me. It's not a war club like a lot of stiff rods.

The Hydros has been discontinued, but it was built on the same blank as the original Helios, and the current Helios 2 Tip Flex (not Mid Flex) is even better. Try that one for sure, and don't let Orvis-bashers talk you out of at least trying it. Then compare it to the Hardy Zenith, the Loomis NRX LP, the Loop Opti Stream, and the St. Croix Legend Elite. (You will then have tried most of the models that performed best at 45 and 75 feet in the new 2103 Yellowstone Angler shootout for 5 weights, by the way.) At least one of them will be able to expand your range beyond what you can do with the 5 wt Z-Axis, and yet feel better in you hand than the Z-Axis too, I'm pretty sure. Yet they can also do nicely when you need to shift gears and fish more delicately closer in. If you're like me it will probably come down to a choice between the Loomis and the Orvis, but feel is subjective and everyone is different.

 

[glacierjohn]

I agree with this assessment. And so it leads me to think that you want a faster rod,not a gentler one.

But that doesn't mean it needs to be even more burly than your Z-Axis. I'm not a big fan of the Z-Axis myself.

I was looking to fill exactly the same gap in my arsenal a few years ago and settled on the Orvis Hydros Tip Flex after casting a lot of other rods. (Orvis also made a Mid Flex model that I found too mushy for the need I was trying to fill.) It has the spine to lob a heavy fly a long distance in the wind. I can probably cast 15-20' farther than with some of the "softer" 6 weights I tried. Yet it still has great feel and sensitivity, which surprised me. It's not a war club like a lot of stiff rods.

The Hydros has been discontinued, but it was built on the same blank as the original Helios, and the current Helios 2 Tip Flex (not Mid Flex) is even better. Try that one for sure, and don't let Orvis-bashers talk you out of at least trying it. Then compare it to the Hardy Zenith, the Loomis NRX LP, the Loop Opti Stream, and the St. Croix Legend Elite. (You will then have tried most of the models that performed best at 45 and 75 feet in the new 2103 Yellowstone Angler shootout for 5 weights, by the way.) At least one of them will be able to expand your range beyond what you can do with the 5 wt Z-Axis, and yet feel better in you hand than the Z-Axis too, I'm pretty sure. Yet they can also do nicely when you need to shift gears and fish more delicately closer in. If you're like me it will probably come down to a choice between the Loomis and the Orvis, but feel is subjective and everyone is different.

Another super helpful post, this is actually going to be fun. I can take my time and try out a bunch of rods. Thanks for understanding the point of my question which I was not very articulate in presenting. That being that I want a more powerful rod but hate giving up the "feel" of a medium action rod like the G series or Winston. I can cast the heck out of that Z-Axis and I've caught fish on it, but I find that I use it as a last resort due to wind, not because I really enjoy it.

John

 

[thewalker1013]

I'd try the St. Croix Bank Robber, if you can get your hands on one... Been very curious to try one, and I think Kelley Galloup is the man so I'm curious to see his designs in action.

I went for a BVK 7wt. for my huge streamers... Keep it in my car for bass, and it works well on the TX coast as a second rod. It was bought to be versatile like that

I just got back from chucking streamers on the Taylor and the Gunnison, and I have to say that my 5 wt. XP sure performed in a pinch (left my BVK at the house, doh!). I paired it with a sinking 10' head from Rio that I picked up, and I had a grand ole time.

I'd never fished streamers for trout much until last year, and I've gotta say that I'm pretty hooked... One evening n the Taylor the fish were rising and I tried everything that was buzzing (and was guiding a business client from back home and my wife, showing them naturals an the imitations I was throwing on for them... client really liked the entomology lesson and found it fascinating, which was awesome for a bug nerd like me).

Never figured out what they were taking on/near the top, went to the car and got out my streamer rig and started banging out to 70', caught three pig rainbows, all of which were strong fighters and CRUSHED the big articulated streamers I was throwing :yikes:. It was too much fun

 

[fireroad]

I just spoke with Ian at Scott, he believes the new Scott Radian is designed just for guys like us. The guy at my local shop raved about the demo Radian the Scott Rep brought in a month ago. I'll also have to check out that VXP if I can find one.

This is the first I've heard of the Scott Radian, but it sounds very interesting. Always been a Scott fan, but they have needed a high end rod that fits between the G2 and S4 for quite some time now. Wish there was a Scott dealer still nearby (less then a 6 hr drive). I have spoken with Ian before, he's a pretty sharp guy and know's the rods very well. Sounds like the Radian will only be sold at "preferred" dealers until supply catches up with demand (estimates are 2-3 months).

I would strongly suggest adding the St. Croix Legend Elite to your short list. Great company with great customer service.