Sage Z-Axis question

[comeonavs]

Help me understand a little something about my rod or me. In all honesty I am getting tempted to sell this rod. I have a Sage Z-Axis 904-4 paired with SA Mastery GPX WF line. I typically use this rod to cast dry dropper / hopper dropper, double, or triple nymph rigs with a strike indicator. This is 99% Colorado front range fishing. So I am using flies usually in the size 14-20 range. For a strike indicator I've been using the yarn indicator held on with a orthodontics rubber band.

Here is the problem, I can't get the dang thing to fully turn over 9' of 6x tippet. Literally the fly line turns over and the leader gets about 1/2way turned then falls like a sack of doo-doo to the water. I don't have this issue with my 710-4 TXL or my 904-4 Legend Ultra. I don't even have this issue with my other fast rods such as 904-3 ONE, 6wt Orvis Hydros etc etc, just this Zaxis. I don't have this problem with my Circa, ZXL, or TXL in 1 and 3 wt, just this rod.

I use the GPX line but ill be darned if I buy a 5wt line for this rod, I would just as soon cast the legend ultra. It is to the point fishing on Saturday I hike my fat arse back to the truck. Dismantled the rod and strung up the 3wt ONE and enjoyed the rest of the day. I would think with my recent affinity for more medium fast rods than sat maybe my casting rhythm has changed but my other fast rods still work just fine.

I'm really half tempted to sell it before relegating it to a back up rod. Here is the wrinkle I also managed to get a tiny slice in my GPX line that has been used twice. I don't want to put $80 in to another floating line if I don't love the rod.

 

[billyspey]

Sounds you need to go to a heaver butt leader more transition of power, try a 3X or heaver tapered leader. If you are using a 5 or 6 X leader the butt section is not heavy enough for good turnover.might start with a 7.5 3X and add Tippett to desired X to fly.

 

[furnacefella]

I am not sure if you are using the factory welded loop at the end of the fly line or not, but I generally cut them off. The line becomes weak in back of the loop and the line hinges rather than roll out properly.

I have experienced the exact same situation (although I don't try to roll out 9 feet of 6x and a leader) with a line I purchased for a new Zenith rod. I was just excited to try the rod so hooked up a leader to the loop and headed out the door. The tippet was piling up so I snipped the loop off, nail knotted the leader and the problem was solved.

I thought it was just my way of casting that caused them to hinge as I am often a little aggressive on the transition but it might be something to check. Is it possible the cut in the line is causing some hinging as well?

The Z is an awesome rod and it will not be on the used market long. It will be your loss as I think you have a line issue not a rod problem.

 

[comeonavs]

I think what both of you are saying makes perfect sense. In the 3 years I've had the rod I have always used Rio or Frog hair 6x mono leader and don't ever remeber this problem except for one time when I used a more true weight line and cast just a size 20 dry. I couldn't get anything to work until I got out 35' of line and horses the cast.

 

[jaybo41]

Have you been fishing that rod much? Could it be that you're more used to another rig than you are with this rod now? Have you tried any other lines on it for comparison sake?

Also, where is the slice in your line? You may be able to fix it. Even though this discussion largely involves adding loops on lines, the tubing you wrap around the line and the heat will fix it.

http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/f...ng/328110-making-welded-loops-spey-lines.html

Oh, and I agree with furnacefella--I think you'd regret parting ways with it somewhere down the line.

 

[comeonavs]

Have you been fishing that rod much? Could it be that you're more used to another rig than you are with this rod now? Have you tried any other lines on it for comparison sake?

Also, where is the slice in your line? You may be able to fix it. Even though this discussion largely involves adding loops on lines, the tubing you wrap around the line and the heat will fix it.

http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/f...ng/328110-making-welded-loops-spey-lines.html

Oh, and I agree with furnacefella--I think you'd regret parting ways with it somewhere down the line.

I've fished it a few times this year, I will admit I found myself grabbing my legend ultra more this spring. I find I can roll cast the LU a little easier in small streams where I don't have much floating line out. Although I have used my ZXL , Circa alot more this year than my TXL rods. So possibly my rhythm has slowed.

I did find the leader would turn over if I really leaned on the rod , but those casts wound up in a violent bounce back when line ran out, ie needed 15' more feet of line out to soften the bounce back.

My line has a little split about 10' up from the welded loop. I bet a little Loon UV knot sense would do the trick but its irritating to have a flaw in a $80 line that's been used twice. I might send it to SA and see what they have to say. I have used the rod with SA mastery trout stalker and it just was to light for the rod. I had to really horse it around to make it semi functional


*** brainfart edit ***

I was using 5x leader

 

[furnacefella]

Does the line seem weak and flimsy in back of the loop?

I know you are not excited about blaming the line but 70-80 dollars is a lot better than a 700 dollar rod given up on. If it is weak at the loop it will cause this problem and is a quick fix for zero dollars.

Try the line on another rod as you seem to have a great selection and see if the problem goes away. Even if it is not a perfect match, it may reveal the flaw.

I once bought a Rio Gold line that just sucked right out of the box. Thankfully I had just removed what was suppose to be the exact same line so I knew something was up with the line. I believe it was simply a mislabeled line as it was too light to load the rod and quickly replaced without question at the local fly shop.

 

[rockriver]

I use Rio Gold on my 4 wt. Z and it turns 6x with 16 to 20 size flies. I use the loops for hooking together. I'd try a different line.

 

[throssing]

I've actually had a similar problem with my 9' 4 wt Z-axis. It casts OK when I'm using a two fly rig, but when I try to go to three flies (or two flies and an indicator), it doesn't turn over very well. I have decided that I'll just reserve the Z-axis for lighter rigs, and when I want to go to heavier stuff I'll use a bigger gun, such as my Hardy Zenith 4 wt..

I think that the comment about a heavier leader butt makes some sense, too.

 

[comeonavs]

Thanks everyone for all the input, I just sent SA customer service an email, we will see what there response is. I do have rio gold on a 3wt ONE and it works well. If SA doesn't offer any assistance or discount on replacing the line I will buy a Gold or Grand 4wt and give it a shot before I get rid of the rod.

I do love the Zaxis though it can move some line on bigger water and Saturday I caught a 17" rainbow and a couple 15" rainbows and they bent the rod to the cork, it was a blast. It's a cannon with great feel.

I did get to use the 3wt ONE on bigger water and man that thing is great. I didn't love it when I used it on smaller water but on bigger water , holy cow it's awesome.

---------- Post added at 10:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:12 AM ----------

I use Rio Gold on my 4 wt. Z and it turns 6x with 16 to 20 size flies. I use the loops for hooking together. I'd try a different line.

Is yours the 9' 4wt as well ?

 

[rockriver]

Is yours the 9' 4wt as well ?[/QUOTE]


Yes it is.

 

[jaybo41]

I've fished it a few times this year, I will admit I found myself grabbing my legend ultra more this spring. I find I can roll cast the LU a little easier in small streams where I don't have much floating line out. Although I have used my ZXL , Circa alot more this year than my TXL rods. So possibly my rhythm has slowed.

I did find the leader would turn over if I really leaned on the rod , but those casts wound up in a violent bounce back when line ran out, ie needed 15' more feet of line out to soften the bounce back.

My line has a little split about 10' up from the welded loop. I bet a little Loon UV knot sense would do the trick but its irritating to have a flaw in a $80 line that's been used twice. I might send it to SA and see what they have to say. I have used the rod with SA mastery trout stalker and it just was to light for the rod. I had to really horse it around to make it semi functional

Sounds like spending more time with the Z may be in order. Think of it as yet another puzzle to figure out with fly fishing. I know that when I'm on my annual spring trout trip and am bouncing between rods of different actions(SLT, ZXL, ZAxis) it takes me a bit to get used to the stroke on them. It makes me really think when I'm just starting out after having changed a rod, then it gets better.

As for your line, I've used the Knotsense to repair it in the field and it works OK but I don't know that I'd consider it a permanent fix. Either go the route of sending back to SA or fix it yourself by looking at the link I sent you. What happens when you apply the heat to the line is it melts, so you can repair that gash in it. Having the tube around it allows it to keep shape. It's a quick fix to be honest. If you prefer, send me the line and I'll repair it for you.

I fish GPX Textured on my 490 and I've got an old Grand line on my 590. I like them both well enough but I have not tried Gold on them. I know Sweetandsalt prefers Gold on them, but I'm pretty sure I ain't the caster he is either. Be forewarned, the NEW version of grand is 1 full line size up as noted on Rio's website, I'd look for an old Grand on closeout if you want to go that route. There are also Gold versions on closeout as well.

 

[comeonavs]

Sounds like spending more time with the Z may be in order. Think of it as yet another puzzle to figure out with fly fishing. I know that when I'm on my annual spring trout trip and am bouncing between rods of different actions(SLT, ZXL, ZAxis) it takes me a bit to get used to the stroke on them. It makes me really think when I'm just starting out after having changed a rod, then it gets better.

As for your line, I've used the Knotsense to repair it in the field and it works OK but I don't know that I'd consider it a permanent fix. Either go the route of sending back to SA or fix it yourself by looking at the link I sent you. What happens when you apply the heat to the line is it melts, so you can repair that gash in it. Having the tube around it allows it to keep shape. It's a quick fix to be honest. If you prefer, send me the line and I'll repair it for you.

I fish GPX Textured on my 490 and I've got an old Grand line on my 590. I like them both well enough but I have not tried Gold on them. I know Sweetandsalt prefers Gold on them, but I'm pretty sure I ain't the caster he is either. Be forewarned, the NEW version of grand is 1 full line size up as noted on Rio's website, I'd look for an old Grand on closeout if you want to go that route. There are also Gold versions on closeout as well.

Thank you for the offer to fix my line, I really appreciate it.

I think I will wait to see what SA has to say to my email. I hate to say it but I probably won't have an opportunity to use the rod for a few months. I think between now and Halloween there might be 1 week where I don't have to travel for work.

All work and no play makes me a grumpy 40 year old fart.

 

[jaybo41]

Thank you for the offer to fix my line, I really appreciate it.

I think I will wait to see what SA has to say to my email. I hate to say it but I probably won't have an opportunity to use the rod for a few months. I think between now and Halloween there might be 1 week where I don't have to travel for work.

All work and no play makes me a grumpy 40 year old fart.

No worries, I'd be happy to do it if all else fails. Sounds like a rough few months, hopefully you'll find time on the water on the weekends at least.

 

[utah daveii]

How's the cork? Isn't that the ultimate decider on a rod?

Sorry for the sarcasm, it is bleeding over from another thread.

In all seriousness, try slowing down a little bit and opening up your stroke. It may be the flies are not having enough time to unwind and your loops might be too tight.

 

[fishiowa]

I have this rod also and think it is a great all around trout rod. I have previously used the GPX on it. I'm currently using the Sage Performance Taper II. Supposed to be designed for these rods. Both lines work well but the Sage line is online closeout priced for $35 + $5 shipping. I just bought a backup and the guy said he has half a semi truck full of them. I use it on a 486 ONE also.

I'm with the others thinking you will regret it if you sell that rod.

 

[sweetandsalt]

The #5 Z-Axis is a fine rod, I fish a RIO Gold on it but SA's Expert Distance Taper or Textured Trout Stalker would be fine too. I too speculate that your leader butt is ill matched to your line causing ineffective transfer of energy. I have striven to describe this issue in the Line Forum...look for the recent thread on technical leaders.

 

[stimulator2]

I fish a z-axis 9ft 4wt and i love it i use an Allen ATS wf 4wt lline floating and fish 3 nymph riggs with an indicator but i cut the loop off the line and use a hand tied leader with a 20lb but section never have a problem turning over the small flies or the heavy rigs .I love mine.

 

[billyspey]

Rio made the gold line to match Sage Z axis I fish a 9.5 4 wt Z with a trout stalker for indicator nymphs rig had no issues , I always buy 3 X leaders thin tye down to the final Tippett size for good turn over .Rio old packaged leaders list on back butt to tippet size 3X .024 , 5x 0.022 makes a difference in turn over power . If you are fishing small streams and not casting 30 ft or more not getting benefit of the head to load the rod you might get better result going up a line size for short distance cast for more turn over. Rio grand is a line 1/2 size heaver than a gold in same weight line. SA GPX is only 1/4 heaver than gold.

 

[markg52]

I'm using Rio Grand on my 904-4 Z-axis. Works great for everything I throw, ie, from tiny dries to double bead-head nymph's/split shot/indicator. Usually have a 5x or 6x Rio leader tied on.