Anyone thinking about getting the Sage MOD rod?

[scout1]

I know that there has been a little bit of discussion on the release of this rod, but anyone else interested in this rod?

I realize that the release date is this month, but anyone had a chance to handle this rod yet?

I own a ONE and a Circa and the thought of something splitting the difference between these two is intriguing. While I really like the Circa there are times that I feel it flexes too deep into the butt.

If you already own a Circa, would you be interested in the MOD?

Jim

 

[jpgodf]

I already own a One and a Circa. I probably would have been interested in the Mod, but I already have two great rods that fit the spaces in between the Circa and the One. They are a Thomas & Thomas Helix 5 wt and a Thomas & Thomas Horizon II 6 wt.

Actually, right now my favorite of my 4 rods is the Helix, though that might change after I do a float trip on the So. Holston in September. On that trip I'll bring the One and Horizon II. For small creeks, though, you can't beat the 7'9" Circa 4 wt.

JP

PS...I will be interested to read user reviews on the Mod.

 

[buggravy]

I want to want one, but haven't arrived there yet. I wish they did a 486. That would be much harder to resist.

 

[el jefe]

I am one of those who is interested. I do own a 389-4 Circa. The description of the MOD suggests that is the Konnetic version of the ZXL. If so, that might be a SWEEEEET rod. But I already have ZXLs in 2, 3, 4, and 5 weights, and am loathe to replace them, as they are my favorite trout rod series. When Sage discontinued the ZXL and introduced the Circa, they left a hole in their lineup, with no medium fast action rod. The Circa was NOT a replacement for the ZXL, but maybe the MOD is that replacement.

I like the idea of 9'0" rods in the lower line weights, but I would like to see shorter rods offered, too, in the 7'6", 8'0", and 8'6" range. If Sage erred with the ZXL series, it was in not offering a 390, in my opinion. You could get it in the contemporary Z-Axis, but not the ZXL. To me, that was weird because the action of the ZXL lent itself more to a 3-weight than the Z-Axis, which I think is too fast for that light of a rod.

 

[sweetandsalt]

You are correct BG, I believe they are 9' models only. Only going by what I have read, not having seen one, my interpretation is MOD is playing in the Zenith, H2, BIIIx medium fast field...a popular action style. My next new trout rod is most probably going to be an 8'6 or 9"/#4. T&T will have a new rod in this size and I still have not put ONE in this category through its paces. To supersede my current Streamdance GLX 8 1/2'/#4, a new rod is going to have to really impress me.

 

[kuch]

I've been looking at the 9' 4wt sage Mod to compliment my 8'-6" 4wt Radian. Not sure yet but I am leaning towards a Scott G2 8'-8" or 8'-4" 4 wt instead.

 

[el jefe]

I've been looking at the 9' 4wt sage Mod to compliment my 8'-6" 4wt Radian. Not sure yet but I am leaning towards a Scott G2 8'-8" or 8'-4" 4 wt instead.

I picked up G2 884-4 last winter, and that is a lovely rod. It doesn't do great when the wind comes up, but then that's why you have the Radian. It will deal with some wind if you "hammer the nail" on your delivery cast, but then you can't really do any reach casts or air mends at those times (at least I can't). It is a terrific dry fly rod, and will handle small nymphs, too. It's a good tailwater rod.

 

[kuch]

I picked up G2 884-4 last winter, and that is a lovely rod. It doesn't do great when the wind comes up, but then that's why you have the Radian. It will deal with some wind if you "hammer the nail" on your delivery cast, but then you can't really do any reach casts or air mends at those times (at least I can't). It is a terrific dry fly rod, and will handle small nymphs, too. It's a good tailwater rod.

Thanks for the input. yes, I am really looking for a rod to compliment my Radian. The G2 seems to do that quite well. I am looking for a better dry fly and small nymph rod for smallish type streams here in Western Pennsylvania. Wind, distance, bigger flies is exactly why I have the Radian but it is a little too much in most situations. I have a G2 8'-4" 3 weight that I use for tricos and love it. the 4 wt seems a bit more versatile for most trout situations I encounter in my home waters.

 

[glacierjohn]

Thanks for the input. yes, I am really looking for a rod to compliment my Radian. The G2 seems to do that quite well. I am looking for a better dry fly and small nymph rod for smallish type streams here in Western Pennsylvania. Wind, distance, bigger flies is exactly why I have the Radian but it is a little too much in most situations. I have a G2 8'-4" 3 weight that I use for tricos and love it. the 4 wt seems a bit more versatile for most trout situations I encounter in my home waters.

As you guys have probably read on other threads, I really like the way my Radian and older G series compliment each other. I usually start the day with my G-904 then switch to the Radian if the wind picks up or way bigger flies are in order.

For almost 20 years I used my G904 and an 8 1/2' five weight Sage SP in that way until I broke the SP a few years ago. I sent the rod and $50.00 back to Sage for repair, but they couldn't repair it so offered a new rod in replacement. They suggested the ZXL as being closest to the SP, but the more I thought about it my SP and G-series overlapped too much so I went with a faster rod (Z-Axis) to compliment my G's. I never warmed up to the Z-Axis so I ultimately sold it to a fellow forum member and bought a Radian after flirting with a 590 Sage One. For me the Scott G-G2 is a perfect compliment to the Radian, similar Scott feel but way more oomph when I need it.

 

[kuch]

I cast a G2 884/4 this weekend and it seems to be a perfect compliment to my 854 Radian.

Sage seems to be all over the place these days throwing out quite a few models. I do think the fit and finish of sage has gone towards looking mass produced and I am not a fan of the bright green color on the new MOD. On the other hand Scott continues to lend their aesthetics towards the hand made aspect of their rods. I think the G2 and Radian rods are hard to beat in terms of looks but the performance is also fantastic. I have to give credit to Jim B. and the Scott team for really putting out some high performing and great looking rods and keeping it to a manageable number of product that do well to compliment each other without much overlap. No doubt Jerry is one of the best rods designers but Sage is getting a bit "big box" for me these days if that makes any sense.

 

[el jefe]

Kuch, I think I get what you are saying about Sage. Their color schemes are going a bit wild, and their components have changed. I still like their fit and finish, but I'm not crazy about the electrical-style colors.

Sage used to be elegant in appearance, and some models still are (Circa, ESN, One). To me, Sage rods should be burgundy or some variation of green. The components took a step back when Struble got out of the reel seat business. When Struble was still supplying Sage, Sage has the finest components in the industry with the nickel silver reel seats. It was a defining feature of Sage rods. And their reel seat spacers were richer and more elegant, too. Though they haven't gotten entirely away from that in all models, they are moving away from it in general. I still like their rods, and have a quiver with a heavy bias toward Sage.

But Scott is killing it these days. I lust for a Radian, and that is probably my next purchase. And I am thrilled with my recently acquired G2, a line that has been around for how long? That line has stood the test of time, and continues to sell well even with all of the new high technology competitors.

 

[glacierjohn]

Kuch, I think I get what you are saying about Sage. Their color schemes are going a bit wild, and their components have changed. I still like their fit and finish, but I'm not crazy about the electrical-style colors.

Sage used to be elegant in appearance, and some models still are (Circa, ESN, One). To me, Sage rods should be burgundy or some variation of green. The components took a step back when Struble got out of the reel seat business. When Struble was still supplying Sage, Sage has the finest components in the industry with the nickel silver reel seats. It was a defining feature of Sage rods. And their reel seat spacers were richer and more elegant, too. Though they haven't gotten entirely away from that in all models, they are moving away from it in general. I still like their rods, and have a quiver with a heavy bias toward Sage.

But Scott is killing it these days. I lust for a Radian, and that is probably my next purchase. And I am thrilled with my recently acquired G2, a line that has been around for how long? That line has stood the test of time, and continues to sell well even with all of the new high technology competitors.

I have always appreciated the contrast between the classic Scott un-sanded look and highly finished gloss sage look, I like them both. That said there are Sage colors I love and some I hate. I love the classic brown of the RPL and LL, my green-blue deep-as-the-sea blank on my SP was wonderful, I even liked my Z-Axis and the ONE is classy, the Method and new Mod not so much.

As to El Jefe's point, even back in the day my perception was that Sage built and sold way more fly rods than Scott, and Sage's factory logo does seem less personal than Scott's handwritten label, but I always felt the two rods were equal in quality of construction. Scott is killing it and it does seem to be in a true renaissance period right now, good for them.

 

[Curtis]

I am definitely going to get one, but I am going to wait until next year when they are discontinued for the next best thing and I can get it for 40% off.

Until then, I will fish last years best rod that should be arriving any day.

 

[sweetandsalt]

Aesthetics being in the mind of the beholder I will only say that I like the translucent black of my ONE better than the eclectic green of MOD. I can assure all though that the internal craftsmanship of Sage's blanks are top-shelf along with Scott, NRX and also resurgent T&T.

Scott hit a ball out of the park with Radian. This led to requests and action to "Radianize" the S4s saltwater series producing Meridian. If I were Jim Bartschi, hold onto your seats fellas, I would already be prototyping "G3ian", a Radian technology/design based more MEDIUMized replacement for the venerable G series that would compete with MOD. I am only speculating of course... I'll take the 8'8"/#4 Creekian.

 

[el jefe]

S&S, you raise an interesting point about a "G3" model. How long has the G2 been around? And combined, how long has the G/G2 lineup together been around? One would think that a replacement for the G2 would come around at some point, but it is a rod that does not seem to need a replacement, unless they can figure out to "Radianize" it. But the deal with the Radian is "fast with feel", and that doesn't describe the G2. What the G2 taught me is that it doesn't take new technology to produce a great fly rod. The G2 still has the classic internal ferrules, which is "yesterday's technology", and it's still fantastic. A G3 might track a little bit better with updated technology, but that would probably still be within my own personal margin of error. And they don't need to make the G2 any lighter.

The G2 is kind of like a pickup truck. The basic design of a pickup truck is unchanged. In the meantime, we've seen SUVs, crossovers (whatever the heck those are), El Caminos, SUTs, and others. But pickups are unchanged and people still want them and they still work well. And I hope Scott doesn't change the G2 any time soon, as I've only recently discovered them, and I want more!!

But to turn this back to the OP's original point, I will go down to the fly shop and check out the new MOD. If it's a replacement for the ZXL, that I expect will be a nice rod, and it might get on my radar. Curiously, I haven't seen Sage reference the ZXL or SLT or SPL in the introduction of the MOD, which I hope does not mean that it is not a replacement for those series.

 

[coolhand]

I kind of not feeling any interest in the new Sage offerings. I am pretty sure that they all will be good to excellent performers. The the new bright color scheme and kitchy model names are kind of off putting. Traditionally they have had tasteful and conservative aesthetics. Seems to have ended with the One and Circa. I guess that the cosmetics on the Accel is ok, but the Method is awful, and the new stuff, not so much either.

I hear fly reps say over and over, that their new rods need to be unconventional colors and a "catchy" model name to keep up with Sage.
The Winston guys said it for years, hence the Nexus in Black, not traditional Winston Green. Also the conventional wisdom is that a rod series needs a name, not a letter/number designation (i.e. RPL, XP, SP, G, G2, S4, BIIIX, etc., etc.). Huh??? Guess that I'm not a marketing guy.

Most of my customers really prefer the traditional look. Winston green and traditional Scott un-sanded look will be classic and timeless. Maybe Sage is shooting for a younger demographic. Don't know.

As far as performance... I haven't casted or fished any of the new Sage models yet. But, consumer response to modern Sages (post Z-Axis, ZXL), has been tepid at best. The One and Method are super-high performance, but beyond reach of most average caster's ability. The Circa is really a specialty stick, for short range, dry fly work. I had high hopes for the Accel, but it hasn't seemed to get any traction, at least in my market.

Right now, the Scott Radian is the current "king of the hill" for the premium all-arounder. The Sage Mod may be too late to the party to make much of a dent in Scott's resurgence and the Bolt is the answer to a question that no one is asking.

All may not be well with Sage. With their recent announcement that they will be selling direct to the consumer, they must feel like the dealers aren't doing a good enough job or selling enough Sage. I think that it is more a case of an over saturated, premium, rod market, and a product offering that is overly, specialized, and in-accessible to the average fly fisherman. As a dealer, I'm not feeling any love from Sage and am not inclined to feel any love toward them right now. I will keep carrying Sage and hope that the new rods will generate more sales and general consumer interest.

But for now... Go Scott!

 

[sweetandsalt]

el jeffe, The "G's", though they were not called that until latter, go back to the original Scott graphite's, conceptualized, designed and individually flex profiled by Scott founder, Harry Wilson in around 1977/8. (The blanks were actually fabricated by supplier J.Kennedy Fisher to Harry's specs as they also did for Tom Morgan at Winston) They were considered fast action rods at the time and were the first to abandon preconceptions based on cane and glass in sizing; Scott built the first ever 9'/#4 because the new graphite material lent its self to longer and lighter line sizes and the rest is history. It is a risk for an older company to abandon the product that endeared it to its loyal customers so Scott builds G2, Winston WT and Orvis "Superfines". All are modernized compare to the originals but bear the names and style from us older anglers' formative years. So Scott, call it G3 but "Radianize" its construction for a similar moderate action but lighter, more responsive, "better" rod..."Medium with Quick Recovery".

Cool, Sage is layering it on more quickly than I can absorb the names and colors! I get it that they want a full range of offerings in the excellent Konnetic Technology class of rods and specialized angling performance wise, first ONE, then Method now SALT have all been winners with me. ONE is translucent black, not a "Sage color" but OK, I like it, SALT is blue which is fine too. Method #6 was in my hand when our drift boat came around an island last season and a guided man and women were fishing there with their matched set of Methods. I said, "Sorry, we didn't know you folks were back in this channel." The woman looked at me and said, "No problem...hey!, you have the same great, Red rod as us, we love our Methods!" So some rods like coal ember, glowing red, Method or grey with opaque cerulean blue wrapped NRX are immediately recognizable by their unique appearance...exclaiming their presence as they do their performance characteristics while fishing them. No subtle wallflowers these two rods. Personally, I am somewhat discrete and am clad in tans and olives astream but I can not forgo the exceptional performance of a few of my rods because they are hot and strut it.

 

[kuch]

I kind of not feeling any interest in the new Sage offerings. I am pretty sure that they all will be good to excellent performers. The the new bright color scheme and kitchy model names are kind of off putting. Traditionally they have had tasteful and conservative aesthetics. Seems to have ended with the One and Circa. I guess that the cosmetics on the Accel is ok, but the Method is awful, and the new stuff, not so much either.

I hear fly reps say over and over, that their new rods need to be unconventional colors and a "catchy" model name to keep up with Sage.
The Winston guys said it for years, hence the Nexus in Black, not traditional Winston Green. Also the conventional wisdom is that a rod series needs a name, not a letter/number designation (i.e. RPL, XP, SP, G, G2, S4, BIIIX, etc., etc.). Huh??? Guess that I'm not a marketing guy.

Most of my customers really prefer the traditional look. Winston green and traditional Scott un-sanded look will be classic and timeless. Maybe Sage is shooting for a younger demographic. Don't know.

As far as performance... I haven't casted or fished any of the new Sage models yet. But, consumer response to modern Sages (post Z-Axis, ZXL), has been tepid at best. The One and Method are super-high performance, but beyond reach of most average caster's ability. The Circa is really a specialty stick, for short range, dry fly work. I had high hopes for the Accel, but it hasn't seemed to get any traction, at least in my market.

Right now, the Scott Radian is the current "king of the hill" for the premium all-arounder. The Sage Mod may be too late to the party to make much of a dent in Scott's resurgence and the Bolt is the answer to a question that no one is asking.

All may not be well with Sage. With their recent announcement that they will be selling direct to the consumer, they must feel like the dealers aren't doing a good enough job or selling enough Sage. I think that it is more a case of an over saturated, premium, rod market, and a product offering that is overly, specialized, and in-accessible to the average fly fisherman. As a dealer, I'm not feeling any love from Sage and am not inclined to feel any love toward them right now. I will keep carrying Sage and hope that the new rods will generate more sales and general consumer interest.

But for now... Go Scott!

As a consumer, your insight and perceptions as a dealer are spot on. I have moved away from Sage for all of the reasons you have stated. Over the last 3 years, I have become a devout Scott fan. Between the Radian and G2 all of my needs and wants are covered. Both are great performing rods that compliment each other nicely and are equally beautiful and carry a simple a classic look to them. Jim B. and the rest if the Scott team certainly are killing it.

On another note, my local shop which not too long ago had their rod racks full of Sage product has not replaced the majority with Scott product. they have people coming in daily wanting to replace their Sage One's with a Radian. They stopped carrying Circa's due to no consumer interest and brought in Scott G2's to answer peoples request for a medium action rod and have had great success selling them. Sort of a resurgence with the G2 line.

Sage continues to get further out of touch with the market every day. It's a shame considering they were such a great rod company for so many years.

 

[scout1]

Just a few additional points to my original thread starting post. While my original question has been lightly touched upon , I was hoping the thread would not deviate too far away. I would have to agree with most about not caring for the the electric green color of the MOD series. In every aspect of my life I tend to lean towards subdued browns and greens. So these bright electric colors really do not appeal to me but, .....it is what it is. If the tool preforms the job well, I can live with the color. It certainly is not my preferred choice but one I can live with.

Question for Coolhand; When you say that the Circa is a short range rod, what exactly is that in numbers to you? Not trying to be a smart***, just trying to get some clarification on your comments.

As I stated in my original post, the thought of a rod action falling in between the Circa and the One appeals to me.

Jim

 

[coolhand]

My thought on the Circa, is that it is fantastic for dry flies from 30' and in. I think that this is what it was designed for, and it delivers in spades. It can certainly be cast further, but loses it's accuracy and kind of runs out of gas past 45'. Again, excellent for shorter range fishing with small flies. Not so good for throwing Hopper/Dropper rigs, Double Nymph Rigs and Indicator, Streamers. So, I look at the Circa as a specialty rod.

My guess is that the MOD will probably be the excellent for a more "all-around", versatile trout stick.

Remains to be seen if it will gain much traction in the market against the excellent Scott Radian. But, it will be nice to have several good options in the premium rod market, even though you might have to take a loan out to afford these $800+ offerings.