Sage X vs Sage Salt HD

[brokeoff]

Has anyone cast these rods side by side? Thoughts?

 

[scott_monroe]

Has anyone cast these rods side by side? Thoughts?

I know it's not what you asked, but given that you probably won't get a lot of exact matches since the Salt HD isn't shipping yet, so I thought I'd reply with something as close as I could...

A couple of weeks ago I test cast an 8wt Salt HD and 8wt & 9wt Thomas & Thomas Exocett rods side by side. I had also cast a Helios 2 8wt & 9wt rods the day before. Was looking for something new to slot between my St Croix Legend Elite SW 7wt (love this rod for bones on calm days) and Scott S3S 10wt (howitzer). Also, one caveat, I was using a pre-production Rio Flats Pro 8wt line with the Salt HD and Exocett 8. This line is going to be worth the $120 they are going to ask for it, and it may have made those 2 rods feel even better than they already would have. Here's my thoughts:

Salt HD: Much slimmer and lighter in weight/swing weight than regular Salt. Looks and feels similar to Scott Meridian in hand. The gloss black blank with black wraps and blue thread was attractive. Casting I was very impressed with this rod. Tracked great, very accurate close in, with plenty of butt and midsection punch. With the Flats Pro line, it was probably the best casting 8wt I've ever tried. I would have liked to try the same line on an NRX and Meridian as a reference as well. The guy from the shop, who's a casting instructor, said he felt like the Salt HD was like the Meridian with a little more power in the butt and mid section.

Exocett 8wt: Slim, light and stunningly beautiful, and exudes quality. It's impossible not to drool when you pick up these rods. With the Flats Pro it cast very well. I could easily put out as much line as with Salt HD, but felt I wasn't forming as good of loops as with Salt HD. It might take a little adjustment of my casting stroke as the loops were a little too tight and tailed a little.

Exocett 9wt: This is where T&T decided to make a "step" in their line. Noticeably thicker, heavier and stiffer than the 8wt. Almost seemed like a 1.5 to 2 line wt jump. I cast this rod with a Rio Bonefish Quickshooter and I didn't feel like this rod liked the line (my S3S doesn't really either, whereas I love it with Mastery Tarpon). I'd like to cast with other lines because I think it has real potential. Shop guy said it cast much better with longer head line like the Rio Permit.

Helios 2 rods: Amazingly light. Crisp and wonderful up close. Felt they really lacked the punch to compete with the other rods in casts over 50 ft though.

 

[pnc]

If Salt HD's will be out soon I might wait to get my X's. Had planned on next month. Travel this month. Have idea based on past experience. I won't like new Salt. Not to take anything away from them. I personally never liked any of their "saltwater" rods.
My fishing is almost exclusively in saltwater. Used Sage RPL+'s until XP's came out. XP's still.
Cast X some weeks back. If not for planned trip. I'd.have at least 2 already. Reaction was ...... my god your my next rod. Felt like lightweight XP that was ...... user friendly ? From first cast was throwing one foot loops. Been doing this near 40 yrs now. Rod felt like it's been mine that long. Really impressive rod.

....... pc

 

[brokeoff]

Very interesting. I have had my eye on the Exocet since I picked up a Solar a few months ago. Then the Salt HD came out. Then I started going in circles again.

What's the taper and gr weight on the 8 wt Flats Pro?

 

[Peled]

scott, apart of appearance and weight/swing weight how would you compare Salt and Salt HD ? What will be the difference ?

 

[scott_monroe]

Brokeoff: I know how you feel -I'm back circling as well. I was seriously considering buying an Exocett 9wt for a trip to Mexico when I went to the shop, and I still might. I just decided to wait to cast them side by side when HDs come out and I can cast a 9 as well.

I don't know any specifics on the Flats Pro, it was a pre production version already spooled on a reel. It was a God-awful mustard yellow and dark green combo that I thing will change for production based on this photo:
https://pitchenginelive.blob.core.windows.net/attachments/27422777-dfe0-4b56-8acf-ab48a504ecf7.jpg

The shop guy said that the core is only supposed to stretch 1/3 as much as their current saltwater lines, and I will say that it laid down straighter than anything I've ever cast.

---------- Post added at 12:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:33 AM ----------

scott, apart of appearance and weight/swing weight how would you compare Salt and Salt HD ? What will be the difference ?

To be honest, I have only held, not cast a regular Salt 8wt. I have cast an Xi3 8wt, and have cast a Salt 12wt & own an Xi3 12wt. I don't know if the similarity between the two 12wt is a good indication that the Salt 8 is similar to Xi3 or not. Compared to Xi3, the Salt HD seemed to have a somewhat softer tip, with faster recovery. Still had great mid and lower power. Just seemed easier to load but also to generate speed. Effortlessly make great loops and made me feel like a better caster than I am.

 

[Peled]

scott, I used to have Xi2 and Xi3. What you said about Xi3 vs Salt HD I can say about Xi3 and original Salt.
Now more intrigued about difference between Salt and HD

 

[Hirdy]

You guys might find this review of the 9wt Salt HD against the 9wt X and the 9wt Salt interesting.

Cheers,
Graeme

 

[sweetandsalt]

My current flats #8/9 combo remains NRX#8 and SALT#9 (with Scott S4S#8 and Douglas SKY#'s 7 & 9 in the mix too)...I've compared them to their other brand counterparts and they are still both winners for me. Both loaded with RIO Permit though I fish an Airflo Tropical Punch occasionally too.

I'm excited about RIO's new Flats Pro and its limited stretch mono-core. It has a longer head and long rear taper which I favor and lower stretch is good in all applications but especially during strip-striking in the salt.

What little I know about SALT HD with its X-like dense fiber alignment technology and taper re-design has any future flats rod acquisition on hold for me. My next flats adventure is not until October and I intend to test SALT HD, Loomis Asquith and T&T Exocet with Flats Pro before making any decisions.

 

[tridentfly]

I was able to cast the SaltHD in several weights at iCast this year. I was super impressed with the 8wt overall. HUGE improvement over the Salt, at least when paired with the new flats pro line. Casts like a Meridian with a little more power. I'm looking forward to casting them side-by-side.

Heavier weights, the Salt was better, and the difference was less noticeable. The 9-10wt's were definitely built for more strength and therefore not as light as the 8.

 

[coho52]

You have any idea when they'll be hitting the retail space? I'm hoping it's August sometime.

 

[Peled]

I was able to cast the SaltHD in several weights at iCast this year. I was super impressed with the 8wt overall. HUGE improvement over the Salt, at least when paired with the new flats pro line. Casts like a Meridian with a little more power. I'm looking forward to casting them side-by-side.

Heavier weights, the Salt was better, and the difference was less noticeable. The 9-10wt's were definitely built for more strength and therefore not as light as the 8.

Trident, as my saltwater range is 9-12, I can live happily with my original SALT ?
Will it be the right approach ??
Well, at least until next launch

 

[sweetandsalt]

I will be comparing SALT HD#8 to my NRX and others. My current SALT#9 is going nowhere except on fishing trips. I last fished it in Biscayne Bay while on skiff full of Meridians. The Capt. and I concurred SALT has significantly more low end grunt and distinctly and valuably more line speed than those really nice Scotts. However, he opined, his average client will have an easier time loading the more accessible Meridian while SALT's complex taper and timing demands might be too much for some of them.

I have never cast SALT#8 but have heard others suggest the #9 is the sweet spot...inspiration for Sage to nail the new #8...but can it dethrone the long-standing King of 8-weights, NRX?

NRX#8 with Nautilus NV-G...will SALT HD with Abel SDS surpass it?

 

[dynaflow]

I love my 8wt.NRX as it's a no-nonsense rod.I use mine for Milkfish and ocean run Bonefish at places like the Korean Wreck on C.I.,but honestly it's old school compared with Sage's latest X and Salt HD offerings.Truly you have to cast and fish with these to appreciate how quickly and how far rod technology has come in recent years.I'm not selling my NRX btw
Cheers

 

[adealarcon]

Trident
did you get a chance to cast the new orvis H3? How does the salt hd and it compare?

 

[Peled]

I last fished it in Biscayne Bay while on skiff full of Meridians. The Capt. and I concurred SALT has significantly more low end grunt and distinctly and valuably more line speed than those really nice Scotts. However, he opined, his average client will have an easier time loading the more accessible Meridian while SALT's complex taper and timing demands might be too much for some of them.

Well said.

 

[dynaflow]

That's an interesting opinion re Salt vs Meridian.Personally I thought the Salt series too stiff,and a Forumite summed it up best when he commented that Sage sacrificed castability for fishability here (or words to that effect).They appear to have it more right with the new HD version....and as an aside,how is it that the nine weight Sages are more often than not the cherry in each rod series? Go figure as they say
Cheers

 

[sweetandsalt]

how is it that the nine weight Sages are more often than not the cherry in each rod series?

Every rod series no matter how well designed has its sweet spots and in SALT (1) it appears to be the #9. I concur with you that rod technology and design move inexorably forward. Some who are more business oriented than serious about their casting skill development may opine that new rods are introduced so the company can make money (which I am sure they hope to do). My Sage expert friend said to me; "We didn't introduce a new series of rods to not be significantly better than the ones they replace". Sage, Loomis, Scott and others are in business to build the most advanced, high performance fly rods in the World without compromise. There are fine rod makers that strive to build the best fly rods for their customer base and ones like Sage that aim for the most uncompromised, superior performing rod possible. I seriously look forward to the opportunity to experience SALT HD.

 

[tridentfly]

Trident
did you get a chance to cast the new orvis H3? How does the salt hd and it compare?

I did, but not side-by-side. Overall, I really liked the 3F lineup, but need more time on the 3D, where most of the saltwater weights lie.

---------- Post added at 09:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:46 AM ----------

Trident, as my saltwater range is 9-12, I can live happily with my original SALT ?
Will it be the right approach ??
Well, at least until next launch

Again, hard to say without casting side-by-side, but more likely than not, you'll save some weight on the new rods, but maybe not a ton. I think I've cast all of the major saltwater rods and I'd say Asquith, Meridian, and Zephrus are my fav's once you go up in line weight. They are just so much lighter than everything else out there.

 

[akos75]

Again, hard to say without casting side-by-side, but more likely than not, you'll save some weight on the new rods, but maybe not a ton.

The stated weight of the 10wt Salt HD is 4 7/16 oz, the Salt is 4 5/16 oz. So the HD should be heavier. I have cast the 10wt with the Flats Pro line, I am pretty sure I have never cast a stiffer rod in this line class. I haven't had the chance to cast the 10wt Salt though, but the Xi3 and the TCX were less stiff as far as I remember.