HI I've got an old Orvis 5 wt. Henry's Fork that has developed four parallel cracks each about the length of the wrap, on the tip section, at the wrap where it connects with the butt section. Orvis will not repair it. What can I do? Will epoxying it work? Any other tricks or techniques?Thanks,Chet Pielock
repairing cracks
- Thread starter jujim
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Rip Tide
Well-known member
If I'm picturing this right, the cracks are above the wraps that strengthen the female part of the ferrule.
That's the sort of damage that comes from the ferrule slipping loose during the cast.
Not good
I've fixed that sort of problem in the male section but in the female, it's never worked out for me.
The only hope I would think is to continue the thread wrap up and above the damage and epoxy it.
Maybe a second layer as well. That's what they do on big "meat rods".
You'll probably would want to over-wrap the existing wrap as well for the extra strength.
Afterwards, wax your ferrule and be sure that it's really socked down in place when using the rod
---------- Post added at 10:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:18 AM ----------
... now that I think about it.
I did once repair a female ferrule end by covering it over with a sleeve cut from an old fiberglass spin rod.
If I had been more experienced at the time, it would have been a little prettier, but it did the job
.... and when looking for a photo of a similar repair, I found this
Repairing A Split Ferrule - Custom Fly Rod Crafters
That's the sort of damage that comes from the ferrule slipping loose during the cast.
Not good
I've fixed that sort of problem in the male section but in the female, it's never worked out for me.
The only hope I would think is to continue the thread wrap up and above the damage and epoxy it.
Maybe a second layer as well. That's what they do on big "meat rods".
You'll probably would want to over-wrap the existing wrap as well for the extra strength.
Afterwards, wax your ferrule and be sure that it's really socked down in place when using the rod
---------- Post added at 10:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:18 AM ----------
... now that I think about it.
I did once repair a female ferrule end by covering it over with a sleeve cut from an old fiberglass spin rod.
If I had been more experienced at the time, it would have been a little prettier, but it did the job
.... and when looking for a photo of a similar repair, I found this
Repairing A Split Ferrule - Custom Fly Rod Crafters
sparsegraystubble
Well-known member
I had that problem to a lesser extent with a steelhead rod, the Orvis Western 10' 7 weight. It was a custom made from an Orvis blank and Orvis said it couldn't be repaired. But they did give me a good price on making replacement top two sections (it is a 3 piece). I seem to remember it being about $100 for both sections.
The spits in my case were my fault for asking a 7 weight to do the job of a 10 weight in fighting chums and a Chinook in Oregon coastal streams.
I still have the rod, but haven't been near steelhead water in a number of years. I will say it was also a wonderful tool for fishing big stonefly nymphs in the Deschutes.
You might ask Orvis what they would charge to build you a new tip section. Sometimes when you put it like that they will offer to sell you a more modern rod at a reduced price in the name of customer service.
Don
The spits in my case were my fault for asking a 7 weight to do the job of a 10 weight in fighting chums and a Chinook in Oregon coastal streams.
I still have the rod, but haven't been near steelhead water in a number of years. I will say it was also a wonderful tool for fishing big stonefly nymphs in the Deschutes.
You might ask Orvis what they would charge to build you a new tip section. Sometimes when you put it like that they will offer to sell you a more modern rod at a reduced price in the name of customer service.
Don
Hi Chet,
If you can take a picture using Macro Mode of the damage and exactly where it is in relation to the wrap and ferrule it will be so much easier for the guys to trouble shoot and advise on this.
Ard
If you can take a picture using Macro Mode of the damage and exactly where it is in relation to the wrap and ferrule it will be so much easier for the guys to trouble shoot and advise on this.
Ard
falcon53
Well-known member
Why won't Orvis repair the rod? is it over 25 years old? Did they offer you a coupon?
Just curious.
Just curious.
The Orvis service guy,Cory made it clear that it was out of warranty and Orvis would do nothing. I mentioned that I had 5 Orvis rods and of course all kinds of other stuff,$1000's of dollars worth and now I needed some help for the first time. Isn't that what customer service is for? Nope! Chet
Did you send him a picture so he knew what you needed?
Hi Chet,
I keep mentioning pictures because your rod may not need an Orvis company fix. If the cracks are on the wrap itself they may be only present in the old Flex Coat that is covering the wrap and not in the blank itself. I have a Far & Fine (Orvis) that I've been using for 38 years, there are some fractures in the flex coat at my ferrule wraps but it has no bearing on the rods integrity.
Posting photos can be a pain but if you have them on a hosting site it's not so bad. There are many tips of image posting located in the Sticky Threads at the top of the General Discussion forum. Hope that will help if you want to show the damage in question.
Ard
I keep mentioning pictures because your rod may not need an Orvis company fix. If the cracks are on the wrap itself they may be only present in the old Flex Coat that is covering the wrap and not in the blank itself. I have a Far & Fine (Orvis) that I've been using for 38 years, there are some fractures in the flex coat at my ferrule wraps but it has no bearing on the rods integrity.
Posting photos can be a pain but if you have them on a hosting site it's not so bad. There are many tips of image posting located in the Sticky Threads at the top of the General Discussion forum. Hope that will help if you want to show the damage in question.
Ard
Well, as a new guy in the market for my first rod, I just scratched off Orvis as one of my options. The mark-up on fly rods (high-end, name brands) seem very high, but it seems the warranties are very generous (and most, lifetime). I'm going to guess that's its more than a epoxy crack though. Maybe the end got crushed?
I've used Orvis tackle & gear for 38 years and have never had an issue regarding repair or replacement on any items. I have had very few instances where I even needed it but when I did they came through with flying colors.
If a rod is over 25 years old and there are no extra blank parts in stock then they have no obligation to service the rod. My Far & Fine is 38 and if I damaged it I would use every bit of my diplomatic skills to find a way to fix it through the company. I did however have the foresight to have an extra tip made for it back in the winter of 1992 while they still had generation one graphite blanks in the rod shop. Still have the extra and hope I never need it.
If a rod is over 25 years old and there are no extra blank parts in stock then they have no obligation to service the rod. My Far & Fine is 38 and if I damaged it I would use every bit of my diplomatic skills to find a way to fix it through the company. I did however have the foresight to have an extra tip made for it back in the winter of 1992 while they still had generation one graphite blanks in the rod shop. Still have the extra and hope I never need it.
mjkirshner
Well-known member
It may be a mistake to write off Orvis just because one person is frustrated because they won't repair a rod that is years out of warranty. My experience with their customer service has been great. There is no perfect, but their products are good - admittedly pricey, but good quality - and you can't please all of the people all of the time. I'm not sure any other company would do more. It doesn't sound like a defect or other warranty issue.
jayr
Well-known member
My sentiments and experience as well.
I have used Orvis' customer service and they went way above and beyond.
Sadly, the rod was used very little ,in fact, looks new ,the cork and seat are beautiful.The blanks is perfect. But the cracks go through the wrap and through the blank. I can easily see the cracks on the inside of the blank. Unfortunately they are on the female,top section, right where it connects with the butt section. I thought I could epoxy the sections together , right at there, to make a one piece! I told Cory that I was considering a Hydros 3 but that any any other Orvis stuff will never be purchased.now. He seemed indifferent.I guess customer service is just another job in Vermont. So much for family businesses. Time to go public and outsource!
Cheers,Chet
Cheers,Chet
Rip Tide supplied this link on the first reply to the thread; Repairing A Split Ferrule - Custom Fly Rod Crafters
I just had a look at the procedure and can say that if I were in your situation I would follow the step by step instructions given. I would probably wrap the entire ferrule to within an 1/8" of the end of the female section for insurance.
I just had a look at the procedure and can say that if I were in your situation I would follow the step by step instructions given. I would probably wrap the entire ferrule to within an 1/8" of the end of the female section for insurance.
fishing hobo
Well-known member
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I don't understand. If the rod is guaranteed for 25years, should it still not be under warranty? If it is older than 25yrs which is what I assume your rod is, then you just have to suck it up. Doesn't matter if you have 10k invested in Orvis rods, they will play by the rules and so should you.
---------- Post added at 05:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:21 PM ----------
You will find Orvis has a very responsive customer service. You need to know the facts of the situation before you write them off. The op's rod may be out of their warranty period then it is just tuff luck for op.
green dragoon
Well-known member
OP, what would you like them to do?
I've found Orvis customer service to be excellent. They just went out of their way to expedite a repair on my H2 6 weight so I would have it for an upcoming trip.
Twenty-five years means 25 years. If more rod companies enforced the stated terms of their warranties, rods would cost less. Take it to a good rod repair/builder and see what he can do.
Twenty-five years means 25 years. If more rod companies enforced the stated terms of their warranties, rods would cost less. Take it to a good rod repair/builder and see what he can do.
sweetandsalt
Well-known member
I'm late to this thread but even without an image I suspect I know what is going on. In the old days, ferrules where attached. Then Fenwick, during the glass days but continuing into HMG in the mid 70's, introduced the Tip-Over-Butt Ferrule, a great idea imitated and refined by many today, it is currently the strongest and least intrusive ferrule.
When Orvis introduced their graphite rods in 1975-76, including Ard's Far&Fine, Henrys Fork came a little latter, they went their own way. Instead of forming the female ferrules part of the tip section, they cut the blank and mounted a "sleeve-over" ferrule, a separate section of tubular graphite, gluing it to the tip section and covering the joining with a finished thread wrap. Resulting from continuous flexing, the glue and wrap nearly always develop a fissure, typically circumferential not longitudinal. As long as the circular crack does not spread it is OK and can be remounted. The OP's though sounds like the cracks are lengthwise indicating blank fracture failure; this can not be repaired, only a new section will solve this issue.
I was a fan of the early-mid 1980's Orvis Western Series which feature this inferior ferrule design. Sparse, I too have the 3-pc. 10'/#7 which served as my Great Lakes steelhead rod (I once accidently took a 40# Chinook with it too...eh gads) but I caught a wild Deschutes fish with it once too. I still fish 8'/#4 Western as my small brushy stream rod, not very often though. My favorite was 8'9"/#5 Western and I broke its tip section. Orvis Customer Service is very good with current and recent product but NOT with the older stuff. I went up the food chain with this issue and they are unable to build and have no spare blank sections to repair my circa 1985 rod. In its day, I thought it was the best 5-weight rod but then came RPL and then GLX and the rest is history so the old Orvis was retired anyway.
Plastic fly rods do have a life span and Orvis did not aid in prolonging it by insisting on employing their own inferior ferrule design...note they have joined modern times with a tip-over-butt of their own a long time ago now. OK, fine, you love your irreparable 8 1/2'/#5...go test cast a Sage X in this same size and you won't miss the antiquated Orvis anymore. And, no, Orvis or any other rod maker is not/should not bear any responsibility for a rod of this vintage though if they could help I am confident they would.
When Orvis introduced their graphite rods in 1975-76, including Ard's Far&Fine, Henrys Fork came a little latter, they went their own way. Instead of forming the female ferrules part of the tip section, they cut the blank and mounted a "sleeve-over" ferrule, a separate section of tubular graphite, gluing it to the tip section and covering the joining with a finished thread wrap. Resulting from continuous flexing, the glue and wrap nearly always develop a fissure, typically circumferential not longitudinal. As long as the circular crack does not spread it is OK and can be remounted. The OP's though sounds like the cracks are lengthwise indicating blank fracture failure; this can not be repaired, only a new section will solve this issue.
I was a fan of the early-mid 1980's Orvis Western Series which feature this inferior ferrule design. Sparse, I too have the 3-pc. 10'/#7 which served as my Great Lakes steelhead rod (I once accidently took a 40# Chinook with it too...eh gads) but I caught a wild Deschutes fish with it once too. I still fish 8'/#4 Western as my small brushy stream rod, not very often though. My favorite was 8'9"/#5 Western and I broke its tip section. Orvis Customer Service is very good with current and recent product but NOT with the older stuff. I went up the food chain with this issue and they are unable to build and have no spare blank sections to repair my circa 1985 rod. In its day, I thought it was the best 5-weight rod but then came RPL and then GLX and the rest is history so the old Orvis was retired anyway.
Plastic fly rods do have a life span and Orvis did not aid in prolonging it by insisting on employing their own inferior ferrule design...note they have joined modern times with a tip-over-butt of their own a long time ago now. OK, fine, you love your irreparable 8 1/2'/#5...go test cast a Sage X in this same size and you won't miss the antiquated Orvis anymore. And, no, Orvis or any other rod maker is not/should not bear any responsibility for a rod of this vintage though if they could help I am confident they would.
sparsegraystubble
Well-known member
So, if the tip over butt ferrule is the strongest design, where does that leave the ferrules used by Scott and Winston that are ar least marginally different because they use a peg as part of the ferrule. Or is that just a variation of the same design and has the same strength.
I was under the impression that the Scott design was actually the strongest, but have no idea where I read or heard that.
But I will echo the general praise of Orvis customer service. They have always been responsive and helpful even when it was something as simple as chasing down a replacement screw for a 30 year old reel.
Don
I was under the impression that the Scott design was actually the strongest, but have no idea where I read or heard that.
But I will echo the general praise of Orvis customer service. They have always been responsive and helpful even when it was something as simple as chasing down a replacement screw for a 30 year old reel.
Don