Yellowstone Angler 2018 8-Weight Shootout

[sweetandsalt]

We have been discussing 8-weight rods a lot recently and right on time, George Anderson has published a lawn casting comparison of many of the newer ones. Lets read through this and see if we can find anything to talk about.

2018 8-Weight Shootout G. Loomis Asquith best fly rod comparison - Yellowstone Angler

 

[e caster]

Fun, fun - always an interesting read.

I did though find something odd in their description of the fly line:


"This 100-foot line utilizes a 40-foot head (including tapers in a WF-8-F) and a 60-foot belly."

 

[steveid]

Well, some things remain the same. Testing done with a ton of bias and far too many variables at play.

I'm sure the Asquith is a great rod, but anything related to Far Bank Enterprises generally gets crapped on in these reviews, and anything made of G. Loomis wins. Always using the same line (by Scientific Angler as to not use anything from Rio, of course) doesn't satisfy the test.

I understand that they don't have time to test all of these rods with different lines to find the optimum pairing. But, I also get that these tests are not done blindly, and that introduces a ton of bias. I will, once again, take these reviews with a lump of salt, knowing full well that the reviewers retail interests are in play. I do gamble from time to time, and I would be very willing to gamble that dealer margins from Scientific Angler and Loomis are a bit stronger than they are from competitors.

All that being said, I'm still going to buy what I want and what I feel casts/fishes the best for me, and this article is still probably worth the read while in the library throne.

 

[clouserguyky]

I find these shoot outs helpful. They have always hated most of my favorite rods, but I still find their opinions useful since I live in a state with very few fly shops, and can usually not "try before I buy" to the extent I'd like to. I'm also not going to go buy an Asquith now just because Yellowstone likes them. That being said, you can get a lot of helpful information about different rods from these shootouts.

Not that my observations mean much, but I'm interested that they chose the Helios 3F over the 3D for an 8 weight, having never tried any of the H3's yet. I would have not been as surprised in lighter weights, but in an 8 weight I am actually surprised they even tried the F model. I'm glad they did though! I am also intrigued and sad to see how the new TFO Axiom 2 fared. It sounds like maybe the 5 or 6 weights will fare better for their purposes. A buddy of mine just picked up the 6 weight and is loving it.

 

[sweetandsalt]

Fun, fun - always an interesting read.

I did though find something odd in their description of the fly line:


"This 100-foot line utilizes a 40-foot head (including tapers in a WF-8-F) and a 60-foot belly."

This revised version of SA's long popular Bonefish has a 40' head including what appears to be 3 - 4' of rear taper...if revising why they did not elongate the rear taper is something of a mystery. The same taper is available under their Mastery series with no texturing. It is a true #8, 210 grain weight in its front 30', and a better all round choice than Andersons's typical over-weight lines used in their trout shootouts.

 

[steveid]

I find these shoot outs helpful. They have always hated most of my favorite rods, but I still find their opinions useful since I live in a state with very few fly shops, and can usually not "try before I buy" to the extent I'd like to. I'm also not going to go buy an Asquith now just because Yellowstone likes them. That being said, you can get a lot of helpful information about different rods from these shootouts.

Not that my observations mean much, but I'm interested that they chose the Helios 3F over the 3D for an 8 weight, having never tried any of the H3's yet. I would have not been as surprised in lighter weights, but in an 8 weight I am actually surprised they even tried the F model. I'm glad they did though! I am also intrigued and sad to see how the new TFO Axiom 2 fared. It sounds like maybe the 5 or 6 weights will fare better for their purposes. A buddy of mine just picked up the 6 weight and is loving it.

Was also wondering why they went with the 3F, but they seemed to be favorable of it. It is probably a better rod for the average/learning caster than the 3D.

Despite my comments above, I do have the desire to give the Asquith a spin. I have an X in 896, so I'm not needing an 8 weight, and the limited time I have spent with my X has been positive. Fishing it in Belize in 7 weeks!

 

[e caster]

This revised version of SA's long popular Bonefish has a 40' head including what appears to be 3 - 4' of rear taper...if revising why they did not elongate the rear taper is something of a mystery. The same taper is available under their Mastery series with no texturing. It is a true #8, 210 grain weight in its front 30', and a better all round choice than Andersons's typical over-weight lines used in their trout shootouts.

I was noting their Head to Belly lengths. The belly is part of the head; it can not be longer than the head.
Y.A. must have meant that the Running line (not Belly) is 60 ft..

 

[e caster]

It is a true #8, 210 grain weight in its front 30', and a better all round choice than Andersons's typical over-weight lines used in their trout shootouts.

And... I do find it odd that they went with a true 8 line; not following suit with their usual up-lining with the 5 wgt. shoot-outs. IMO, it should be the other way around, if it's to be done.

 

[camelbrass]

At the level of the high end Loomis, T and T, Sage and Scott it’s really down to personal preference. It’s nice to see some of the mid priced rods getting great reviews.

I’ll be using the SA Amplitude lines on my trip to Alphonse in 2 weeks time. A Bonefish taper for the 9wt, Tarpon for the 10 and Big Water taper for the 12. I will have my Rio Permit lines ready as back up though, looking for a worthy successor.

I’ll let everyone know how they go.

Regards,


Trevor

 

[fishrat]

A little surprising to see the Sage Salt HD finish so low.

 

[mjkirshner]

At the level of the high end Loomis, T and T, Sage and Scott it’s really down to personal preference.

Ditto. I just got a Meridian and was on the fence between that and the H3. I just read the shootout, and while I don't make decisions solely based on reviews, the Meridian seems to be so close to the H3 (and just a touch better in their opinion), that I feel I made an excellent choice with the Scott. As I was just saying to the guy I bought the rod from, at this level, we are talking Mercedes vs BMW vs Audi vs Lexus, etc., where the differences are most likely going to come down to minor points of preference rather than quality or performance.

 

[e caster]

I’ll be using the SA Amplitude lines on my trip to Alphonse in 2 weeks time. A Bonefish taper for the 9wt, Tarpon for the 10 and Big Water taper for the 12. I will have my Rio Permit lines ready as back up though, looking for a worthy successor.

I’ll let everyone know how they go.

Regards,


Trevor

I found the Big Water taper 12 a super line - matched perfectly with my Asquith 12.

... and yes, please do report back.

 

[steveid]

A little surprising to see the Sage Salt HD finish so low.

Not really. Pretty standard practice for YA to dump on the Sage rods. Other reviewers (who are very pro Sage, might I add) have also said that the 8 weight was one of the worst rods in the Salt HD series, while the 7 weight was the best, while also proclaiming that the 7 weight is the new 8 weight in the world. Perhaps the test should have been done with a Salt HD 7 weight and the SA line that was used, or a Salt HD 8 weight and a heavier line that would be a better match such as Flats Pro.

 

[sweetandsalt]

I have no way of knowing if Anderson has something personal or financial against Sage/Farbank. Therefore, giving him the benefit of the doubt, I surmise that at the least it is his personal "filter" of disapproving of rods with "stiff tips" that induces him to denigrate Sage flagship models. It may additionally be that Salt HD, like Salt before it, likes more line mass, I fish a RIO Permit on my Salt #9.

As I've opined previously, describing rod action in words is challenging and Anderson confuses me further with his deflection chart paragraph about rods whose tips flex deeper are "faster" and stiffer tips are slower or some such irrationality.

"Keep in mind that fast action rods are not necessarily stiff rods (as many people assume). The tips on the faster action rods bend more, and if you look at the top rods, you will see that they tend to be faster action rods. We have found that this is the key to getting good accuracy, especially at closer distances." GA



So, the least flexible tip of the NRX is a "slow" rod and the deepest bender of the H3F is the "fast" rod. It is this Fake Fact alternative tendency that contributes to the "grain of salt" attitude many regard these shootouts with...this and relying on George's "feelings". Still, I've read through the entire shootout with curiosity.

 

[fishrat]

Not really. Pretty standard practice for YA to dump on the Sage rods. Other reviewers (who are very pro Sage, might I add) have also said that the 8 weight was one of the worst rods in the Salt HD series, while the 7 weight was the best, while also proclaiming that the 7 weight is the new 8 weight in the world. Perhaps the test should have been done with a Salt HD 7 weight and the SA line that was used, or a Salt HD 8 weight and a heavier line that would be a better match such as Flats Pro.

I agree that Yellowstone doesn't seem to be a fan of Sage in many of their shootouts. Worth noting though, in their 2016 8-Weight shootout, the Sage Salt finished ranked 6th in performance only. In the latest shootout, the "improved" Salt HD has fallen considerably.

 

[e caster]

Soft (bendy) tips don't make a rod accurate; they give feel, feedback.

YMMV, but you'd be wrong

 

[fishrat]

"... The tips on the faster action rods bend more..." GA

View attachment 9162

So, the least flexible tip of the NRX is a "slow" rod and the deepest bender of the H3F is the "fast" rod. It is this Fake Fact alternative tendency that contributes to the "grain of salt" attitude many regard these shootouts with...this and relying on George's "feelings"...

You're right about this. So many flaws in their methodology too. Using a 6.2 oz weight is a purely arbitrary decision. Use a heavier or lighter weight, and you'll see different results. Different materials and tapers will not respond with uniform linearity. Attaching the weight to the tip makes no sense either. The weight needs to be attached to a line, which runs the entire length of the rod. The load is then properly distributed. That is how rods are used in the real world, and it makes a big difference. None of this tells us anything about recovery, which is also a critical factor.

 

[e caster]

Maybe we should rename this thread: Yellowstone Anger

 

[sweetandsalt]

None of this tells us anything about recovery, which is also a critical factor.

I don't know what they could make up to measure recovery but if it was as important to them as it is to you, me and many others here it might detract from the score sheet of some of their preferred, softer tipped rods.

 

[falcon53]

Its a marketing / sales ploy. People talk about and therefore it succeeds. Read it as entertainment and fodder for conversation. However, there are people I have spoken to that take this shootout as gospel. I liked e caster's play on words "Yellowstone anger" ... funny. Oh I see George has the discontinued Sage Salt 8wt on closeout for 399.00. I think I remember the old Salt scored higher than the HD in a past shootout therefore it must be better! See I just gave George's shop a sales pitch.