Edge fly rods,

[brownbass]

Edge fly rods by G Loomis have gone on sale at 70% off. $359, $500 off. I don't remember them getting much press or love for that matter. Can anyone give some feedback?

Bill

 

[jr spey]

First of all, they are NOT a GLoomis product. I think that confusion, and the fact that they were distributed by Temple Fork Outfitters for several years is one reason they're mostly a mystery. I have ten of their rods, including three fly rods, and can say without doubt they are the finest rods I've ever used. Their Finesse spinning rods are so superior to everything else it's not even funny. The 8 weight fly rod is the finest bonefish rod I've ever used and I've probably used some twenty rods on bones over the years. The ten weight was a little wimpy for Florida Bay tarpon, but is a superb permit rod. I know nothing about the sale. I know I was on their website only about a week ago and nothing was said as yet. If your information is correct, I'd jump on whatever you can land as you won't be disappointed unless your needs are quite unusual.

 

[brownbass]

First of all, they are NOT a GLoomis product. I think that confusion, and the fact that they were distributed by Temple Fork Outfitters for several years is one reason they're mostly a mystery. I have ten of their rods, including three fly rods, and can say without doubt they are the finest rods I've ever used. Their Finesse spinning rods are so superior to everything else it's not even funny. The 8 weight fly rod is the finest bonefish rod I've ever used and I've probably used some twenty rods on bones over the years. The ten weight was a little wimpy for Florida Bay tarpon, but is a superb permit rod. I know nothing about the sale. I know I was on their website only about a week ago and nothing was said as yet. If your information is correct, I'd jump on whatever you can land as you won't be disappointed unless your needs are quite unusual.

Check out Reds Fly Shop and Madison River Fishing Company. I know TFO was selling them I just haven't seen or heard anything about them since their intro.

Bill

 

[moucheur2003]

I don't remember them getting much press or love for that matter. Can anyone give some feedback?

Bill

S&S gave his thoughts on the 8 1/2' 4 weight here:

https://www.theflyfishingforum.com/...omposites-edge-8-4-a.html?highlight=edge+rods

 

[sweetandsalt]

I do consider EDGE fly rods to be seriously fine contenders and very well made too. I agree the confusion generated by going to the G.Loomis site and finding nothing abut these rods built by Gary Loomis owned North Fork Composites as well as TFO not doing anything to promote them then dropping them may have contributed to their demise which is likely of a financial nature. I will seek to learn more on Edison in a couple of weeks.

 

[brownbass]

First of all, they are NOT a GLoomis product. I think that confusion, and the fact that they were distributed by Temple Fork Outfitters for several years is one reason they're mostly a mystery. I have ten of their rods, including three fly rods, and can say without doubt they are the finest rods I've ever used. Their Finesse spinning rods are so superior to everything else it's not even funny. The 8 weight fly rod is the finest bonefish rod I've ever used and I've probably used some twenty rods on bones over the years. The ten weight was a little wimpy for Florida Bay tarpon, but is a superb permit rod. I know nothing about the sale. I know I was on their website only about a week ago and nothing was said as yet. If your information is correct, I'd jump on whatever you can land as you won't be disappointed unless your needs are quite unusual.

I really srewed up that paragraph. I know that the rod was designed by Gary Loomis and is not manucactured by GLoomis. I suppose I was wondering what was going on with the rod being discontinued or redesigned or was their a new marketing plan coming up. I noticed that the rods didn't even get in the Yellowstone shootout. More curious than anything.

Bill

 

[sweetandsalt]

I've sent a couple of e-mails and made a call or two and no one actually has definitive information as to what is happening with EDGE. A couple of shops I spoke with said they were no longer stocking them not because they didn't like them but because they just didn't sell. I found nothing on Google about them being discontinued either. There is one guy I know who would definitively know but I have not heard back from him.

For historical clarity, understand that Gary Loomis was never really a rod designer, rather he was the seminal pioneer in graphite composite and fabrication advancement. Back as early as G.Loomis IMX, it was Steve Rajeff who designed Loomis rods...and then Shimano bought the company and kept the name but, after a while, not the founder. So EDGE is Gary's first rod with his name on it since his sale of his namesake company built by his newer company, North Fork Composites...also in Woodland, WA.

 

[moucheur2003]

I know that Shimano bought the "Loomis" name and the terms of the purchase of the company included a non-compete clause (the details of which I have not seen). I also know that The Fly Shop in Redding, California, used to have a private label "GL-H2O" knockoff of the Loomis GLX rod series that they had to rename "Signature H2O" after Shimano objected.

I remember hearing in a previous online discussion that the non-compete terms allowed Gary to make fly rod blanks but not finished fly rods. That's why North Fork Composites (his new company) at least for a time had a stable of preferred custom rod builders who would build your a finished fly rod on a North Fork blank, but didn't offer their own line of finished rods. Subsequently, North Fork developed the EDGE finished rod series, but arranged to have TFO distribute them. I was surprised that Shimano allowed that, but I assumed that perhaps TFO selling them under the EDGE brand name was different enough from Gary or North Fork selling them directly that it didn't violate the non-compete terms.

It's only speculation on my part, but now I'm guessing that perhaps Shimano demanded that TFO stop distributing the EDGE rods with Gary's name on them, and then TFO decided it wasn't worth a lawsuit to defend the use of the name and they couldn't sell enough of them without it. Hence the clearance sale as TFO's remaining inventory is liquidated. It will be interesting to see whether North Fork now tries to continue marketing finished fly rods through some other channel, or reverts to selling blanks only.

 

[sweetandsalt]

To be clear, I'm neither a lawyer nor businessman but my understanding from dialog with G.Loomis personnel is that the no-compete clause with Gary Loomis (which apparently did have some clashing glitches over the years), expired, finally allowing him to use his name on fishing tackle again. I suspect he had EDGE in mind and development for some time prior to this expiration hence its emergence as a mature product. EDGE blanks are unique and different than any other NFC built blanks.

Loomis is a personal friend of the founder, now semi retired, of TFO and did spinning and conventional tackle development for TFO...TFO functions as a friendly group of expert anglers working together to develop product which is them fabricated in their proprietary S.Korean shop. Their shared philosophy is that good performing rods need not be expensive. Still, they took on the distributorship of EDGE rods but it apparently did not work for TFO either economically or attitudinally. EDGE then went their own way and were able to lower their price a bit by cutting out TFO's take...still a rod of elevated price point with no previous foundational reputation is a stretch in the premium fly fishing market.

As of this morning I have not heard back from the one person I know who would really know what is going on with EDGE. It may not be until the Edison Show that the inside story is clarified.

 

[moucheur2003]

my understanding from dialog with G.Loomis personnel is that the no-compete clause with Gary Loomis (which apparently did have some clashing glitches over the years), expired, finally allowing him to use his name on fishing tackle again.

Ah, that would make sense.

I ordered the 8 1/2' 4 weight EDGE, partly on the strength of your review. Do you know who helped Gary design his tapers since Rajeff is no longer involved? They haven't received many reviews, bu the few that I have seen have all been pretty positive, so somebody there must know their stuff.

 

[sweetandsalt]

I do not know who is responsible for the tapers but Gary Loomis has many friends and the crew at TFO conceivably may have contributed. Quite a few rods are conceived by a smart angler who is not a rod designer whose "team" of friends and associates combine to tweak a taper.

 

[sparsegraystubble]

This is somewhat off the subject of Edge rods, but there seems to be a lot of knowledge of Gary Loomis and his ventures so I would like to tap into that.

Was Gary involved with the old Loomis Composites Industries operation that was located in Washington state in the 80s? I had a very nice 8’ 4 wt made by that company and then several rods made by LCI for Dave McNeese as a shop rod in Salem, Oregon. Still have the McNeese Special 9’ 6 wt and it is a great all around trout rod that I have used for smallmouth and even steelhead. Also a great hopper rod.

Thanks for any info.

Don

 

[jr spey]

The short answer is yes.

 

[moucheur2003]

I believe that Gary's core expertise is in materials technology and manufacturing, not fishing, and that his earlier company began as a business-to-business jobber supplying custom orders of carbon-fiber components to other manufacturers, including fishing rod blanks to rodmakers. At some point he came out with his own line of blanks and finished rods, branded as "G. Loomis", while also continuing to make private-label blanks and even finished rods for competing rodmakers and G. Loomis blanks for custom builders and hobbyists. (For example, Loomis made the premium LL Bean fly rods for many years, using LL Bean's proprietary tapers rather than G. Loomis tapers. I believe he also make Winston's blanks for a time.) My understanding is that the entire operation was sold to Shimano, which eventually narrowed the business lines down to finished G. Loomis fishing rods only, abandoning the component and b-to-b businesses. When Gary started North Fork it again began as a b-to-b component manufacturer, just like his earlier company, and since Shimano was no longer supplying those customers it wasn't a direct competitor in that market.

 

[peaks2creeks]

Found some interesting videos of Gary talking about Edge Fly Rods.

YouTube

There are a couple more similar to this, pretty interesting stuff....

 

[peaks2creeks]

YouTube

 

[sweetandsalt]

Moucheur has it right, Loomis built antennae, golf club shafts and all manor of tubular graphite components. He is an avid angler but his passion is more aligned with big game hunting of all things. Also those very good, Loomis-built, green LL Bean premium rods (mine is a striped bass 10-weight) where developed with Rajeff input but were the brain child of LL Bean's then FF dept. head who was hired away from Bean to be Orvis's rod designer for the very good but unsung T3 rods. He didn't mesh well with the Orvis rod shop or hierarchy as he liked faster tapers and finer tips...I have a two piece 8 1/2'/#4 never released prototype of his that might be the best rod Orvis never made.

Sparse, Your old Loomis sourced rods were ahead of the technology curve back in the day, which is why Winston's Tom Morgan employed him the build his best WT IM6 blanks, however, it was only after the great Steve Rajeff joined forces at G.Loomis that the continuing era of terrific fly rods appeared under his name...it was more Rajeff, less Loomis. Shimano, for what it is worth, runs Loomis's business operations but lets G.Loomis be G.Loomis independently. A plus is the new Shimano Spiral X fabrication technology and a minus is Shimano's reps piggy backing Loomis fly tackle as an add-on to their Shimao conventional gear.

 

[dreihl9896]

For historical clarity, understand that Gary Loomis was never really a rod designer, rather he was the seminal pioneer in graphite composite and fabrication advancement. Back as early as G.Loomis IMX, it was Steve Rajeff who designed Loomis rods...and then Shimano bought the company and kept the name but, after a while, not the founder. So EDGE is Gary's first rod with his name on it since his sale of his namesake company built by his newer company, North Fork Composites...also in Woodland, WA.

I'm not sure that it can be said that Gary Loomis has never been a designer, or at least he says otherwise in many interviews and podcasts that are readily available on YouTube and other sites. Though, no doubt he better known for materials advances (with his MO seeming to be lighter, stronger materials with a minimalistic design philosophy to eliminate as much weight as possible in the finished product) and there is no disputing that Rajeff was clearly the design lead for much of the time at his former company, he stil boasts quite a bit about knowing how to design specific tapers for specific applications. Granted, many of these interviews have been on sites more interested in conventional gear as opposed to being fly specific, and if memory serves me correctly, the context of many of these boasts, gives the impression that his design expertise is more applicable to conventional salmon/steelhead sticks and application specific bass tackle. Also, in fairness, it's possible that Gary saying "I can design such and such", could also be shorthand for "I can have my people design such and such." I also seem to remember following the NFC blog from early on, and when they were just getting ready to release some fly blanks, and I believe it was somebody other than him that was designing the fly tapers. Regarding Edge, I've also heard him talk about slowing down and putting an emphasis on having a solid team in place to run with this, as he steps away.

All that said, while I have zero hands on experience with any NFC or Edge products, I've been following this company for awhile and rooting for them to succeed. There facebook page has been periodically posting flash sale of 50% off for awhile, leaving the impression that they are having difficulty drumming up business and carving out a niche in the market. Comments left below the sale posts also indicate slow turnaround time on filling the orders too, so maybe they are actually getting quite a few orders, or maybe the slow turnaround time is an indicator of how lean of an operation they are trying to run. Of the feedback that that can be found of the rods themselves though, I think 100% of it has been positive, so I'm still hoping they find some traction, and that we have another option to explore in the premium rod market for years to come.

 

[sweetandsalt]

"I'm not sure that it can be said that Gary Loomis has never been a designer."

And I'm not saying he has never designed a rod, I know he has especially bass and gear rods both for TFO and himself. Also, I'm not certain, but I think he also was responsible for his early IM6 fly rods. At that time (earlier 1980's) I elected to fish Scott and Orvis rods and didn't really care for his IM6's; it was only when Rajeff came in and did IMX that I boarded the Loomis bandwagon. One can design a rod, many do, but designing really good rods is more rarefied. No disrespect to Gary Loomis, whom I have never met but admire. I was there for the introduction of EDGE fly rods in Somerset, and was fishing one that early spring. I have substantial respect for him and his contributions to the graphite revolution and, regardless of who is involved with the development of EDGE rod tapers, I hope they continue and prosper.

 

[brownbass]

I checked around this morning and it seems that the sale may be closing down. I couldn't find them on the TFO site and the Edge site listed them at the original price. I started thinking, a dangerous thing my wife tells me, that what Mr. Loomis needed to get people talking about his rods and to get rods in the hands of fisherman and then let them spread the word about what fine rods they are. Maybe costly at first but it could pay off in the end. Good luck to Edge rods and Mr. Loomis.

Bill